Practice Success Podcast

Terrell Turner on Building a Firm, Finding a Niche, and Creating Success

• Terrell Turner • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Terrell Turner, co-founder of TLTurner Group and co-host of the Things Your Accountant Isn't Telling You Podcast, shares tips for building a firm from scratch, how to find your niche, and unique ways to create success.

KC Brothers:

On this episode of the Practice

Terrell Turner:

Success Podcast powered by Canopy, we are talking to Terrell Turner, CPA, who is the founder of the T. L. Turner Group with his

KC Brothers:

wife, Lola. He talks about launching

Terrell Turner:

a virtual practice during the pandemic, developing

KC Brothers:

a niche, and how powerful it can be as a strategy for scaling an accounting practice. He also shares his success in using social media as a powerful marketing tool. Get your note taking device and learn from Terrell's practical tips. Welcome to an episode of Canopy Practice Success. I'm Casey Brothers and I'm here with Terrell Turner. Terrell, would you introduce yourself, your practice, and what you're doing

Terrell Turner:

today? Yeah, so I'm Terrell Turner. I'm probably like most accountants. Typical background of studying accounting became a CPA, but eventually decided to start my own practice So we do bookkeeping and CFO work for law firms. Okay, and how long have you been doing this? So we started in April of 2020. So not very long. Well,

KC Brothers:

not very long, but also like Timing holy cow. I mean the world shut down just a month before what? What was going through your mind? And like, I'm assuming the decision was made before April, even before March, maybe even before December 2019, when there were the tiniest mentions of COVID.

Terrell Turner:

Yeah, so early on, like, I was working for, as the director of FP& A for a tech company, and After working about like 90 hour work weeks, I was like, okay, if I'm going to work that much, I want to own the business. And so I was like, okay, society talked to the CEO and CFO told him about, you know, I was wanting to leave to do something different. And so they asked me to stay on. Cause we were trying to finish raising about 80 million in private equity funding. I'm like, okay, I'll help you get through that round. And then my, you know, it's time for me to move on to something new. Had no idea we would be in the middle of a pandemic when that happened. And so, I mean, it was very interesting because I talked to a lot of, um, CPA firms beforehand of like, Hey, how did they grow their business? They gave me some advice. A lot of them were in person networking. Come 2020, like, you couldn't do any of that. So it was just like, all right. Now, let's go back to the drawing board and we had to get very creative of really the way we started our firm, because I think typically people start off with working in the business and then eventually they get to working on the business. We had to actually start the reverse way where we started working on the business first, and a lot of the business development, marketing, and then I started working in the business when we started getting more clients. And so. I feel like it forced me to grow up a lot faster. So I feel like I've been running the firm for more than three years because of the way we had to do it. So what were some

KC Brothers:

of those things that you did, working on the business? What were some of your first things?

Terrell Turner:

Yeah. So one of the things that we did really is understanding, you know, what type of clients we wanted to work with. Um, and because a lot of firms would tell me. At first you just, you know, get people who can pay you and then you figure that out sometime later and some firms, you know, the way they go about it is they just start getting clients that pay them and eventually they never really develop a focus. They're just a little bit of everything.

KC Brothers:

Well, and I feel like that's operating off of a scarcity mindset that you don't know what's going to come or when it's going to come. So how can you possibly limit that by saying these are the kinds of people that I want to work with? And, and granted, I wonder too, to what extent COVID and the pandemic were a good catalyst to show people that A, they didn't have to operate that way, but B, because of technology, we can, we can say this is the slice of pie I want to go after, but I'm not limited to my community anymore.

Terrell Turner:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for us, it started us off with just having more of a national reach because We started off just creating content and videos on social media. We leveraged LinkedIn a lot. We were on Facebook, on YouTube. We started a podcast. And because we were like, okay, we can't do any of this stuff in person. So how do we get creative about this? Like, and if we did go somewhere where it's like, let's say it was my wife and I, we were in the woods for a hike or whatever. And it's just us. And I'm like, well, We can invite people into the experience through video. And so we were like, well, we'll leverage that. And so we started doing a lot of video and then we decided to launch the podcast. I was like, okay, if I want to understand who the right type of client we want to work with. Then why not just interview a lot of business owners. So in year one, I interviewed about 195 business owners.

KC Brothers:

So many good job,

Terrell Turner:

but it gave me a chance to ask them questions about like, what were some of your clients at the time? No, none of them

KC Brothers:

were. And so then what, yeah. What did that look like? Like here you are spending your time with people that are not paying you, but in an effort to build your business, what did that, how did that. In

Terrell Turner:

fact, build your business. Yeah. Well, what it did is it first, it gave me a chance to hear the types of problems that they had. So then when we would create, you know, independent videos where I would talk about a finance concept, I could make it contextual to the way that they described their problems.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. And yes, putting it in their words, being able to. There is power, so much power in being able to say something in the same way that someone else would say it.

Terrell Turner:

Absolutely. And we saw that, that, you know, people would start to, about eight months in, people would reach out to us and say, Hey, I saw your video when you talked about this. And it really connected because I'm dealing with that problem right now. And that's where we started to get more traction. People would reach out. Cause they're like, Hey, I saw this video, you talked about X. And I just had that conversation with my team yesterday. And, and I would say is that. There are probably three videos I did on that same topic, but in those other two videos, I didn't say it the same way that connected with them. But what the interviews did, it allowed me to understand how can I adjust my messaging, the analogies that I use whenever I would talk about things. And so that's how it really started this snowball and helping us build the business.

KC Brothers:

Oh my gosh. I love that so much. So you're doing this, uh, early pandemic. Um, when did you start identifying who your customer was and, and working with them?

Terrell Turner:

You know, I would love to say that, Hey, it happened in the first six months, but it really took about a year and a half before we really narrowed it down to say, Hey, this is the type of clients that we want to really lean in on because early on, we meet different businesses. We're like, okay, all right, we understand the problems. All right, let's take on a few clients in that area. Now let's see, what is it like to actually do the work? Because it's one thing to understand the problem. Now, let's actually get in, do the work. Can we build scalable processes around it? And that's what we really got to explore. Like, we started off with restaurants. And we're like, we can help them, but could we build scalable processes around this? And we realized just like, we couldn't figure out the scalability around the processes. So we were like, okay, all right, that's probably not the fit. Then we looked at, you know, service based businesses and we were like, okay, all right, we have something here. And then after I had done consulting with about 17 different law firms, I was like, okay, I understand their problems. They do need our help. Um, we can, there is a wide range of different types of law firms. Plus, I mean, they're in a financial position where they can afford to pay for our services. I was like, this is the one. It was like a light bulb moment, like this is the industry. We're going to lean all the way in on this one.

KC Brothers:

Okay, so that got me thinking. You were saying that a lot of the advice you were given was, okay, just network and just take, take what comes your way. So, so different from what you just described of saying very intentionally, even going from industry to industry. And I would assume you didn't say this, but I'm curious, uh, that you then also let those

Terrell Turner:

clients go. Yeah. So we, we definitely started having conversations with different clients because, you know, even when I kind of surveyed, um, because, And figuring out how to deal with that, I was like, okay, all right, I don't know how to deal with it. And it was before in person conferences that started back again. So I was like, all right, you know, how can I learn from other, what other accounting firms are doing? So I started at that time, I started another podcast called the Finance and Accounting Show, where I just interviewed firm owners because I'm like, this would be my way of learning from other firm owners. And so I talked to some of them, some of them said, you know, they just kind of started deprioritizing some of those clients that they no longer wanted. I'm like, I don't want to do that because I don't want to lose my reputation. I'm like, and some of them said, Hey, we had to have very straightforward conversations with them of like, Hey, here's where our firm is going. And so we started doing that of having conversations with those types of clients like, Hey. We're really focusing on this niche and here's where we're going. We would love, like, we will support you through the transition. Uh, and plus for some of them, like, hey, if it takes another three months, we will stop billing you and we will help you through that transition because we wanted to protect our reputation. Yes.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. And even just saying, you know, our goal is to serve our clients in this way. And we have identified that our strengths align not where you're at. And, but we want, we want what's best for you. I love that. And just. That nice handoff reputation. And the days of the internet is gold.

Terrell Turner:

Absolutely. I mean, because for us, I mean, that's how we built the firm was on our reputation through that we built and established through the content. And then when in person conferences came back of speaking at different events to where it's like, we were creating a reputation and a brand and we're like. We don't want to ruin it because we can't have straightforward conversations with people. And then I always felt like there is a, there is a decent and a mutually beneficial way to approach that conversation and helping some clients, you know, transition like one of the restaurant clients, like, you know, they transition to another accounting firm. I personally spent about an hour on the call helping them like, Hey, here are some of the hurdles we had to work through because. I want you to be able to hit the ground running with this client. So when we hand them off, there's not this huge hiccup the way you don't feel like you got a bad client. They don't feel like they made a bad decision to leave us that way things can flow well. And that client has called me back about some private equity work that they're doing. So I'm like, that's not in our wheelhouse. I'll give you some advice, but that's not in our wheelhouse.

KC Brothers:

Well, it just goes to show how mutually beneficial accounting firms can be to each other. That as we focus on the slice of the pie that works the best for us and that we can perform the best for, that we can deliver the best services for, that by you passing these clients to someone else, I mean, guess, guess what's going to happen tomorrow or next month. You might have another accounting firm passing clients your way.

Terrell Turner:

Absolutely. And that's been one of the big things about us being very clear about who we work with is, you know, we've gotten referrals from other accounting firms who have said, Hey, I had a law firm reach out to me. I know you specialize in law firms. Can you help them? Like. Um, even coming, you know, when I travel to different cities to go to different conferences to where, um, I may know a larger law firm in that city to where they may not be coming to the conference, but I went out to their office, met with them and we're talking about like, Hey, they're getting, you know, different law firms that reach out to them. They're not the good fit, but they wanted to meet me, talk about the processes to develop some type of referral relationship because I do think of really. As you were saying earlier, having that abundance mindset, I mean, it just opened up so many opportunities.

KC Brothers:

Yeah, that you're not, when you're saying no, you are saying yes to the right thing, hopefully, right, when you've identified that. Um, you said something else too about, um, just clearly communicating. It was obvious to other firms. What you did, what you and your firm did, and those first few months or year of your business when you said you were allowed the, or forced even, the time, space, and energy to work on your business. That, that was probably part of that, that creating an identity, I'm assuming, and, and writing that clear language.

Terrell Turner:

Yeah, so, um, really working on the business forced us to get our message very clear about, one is, Who we are, what we do, because,

KC Brothers:

And even the services you offer,

Terrell Turner:

Absolutely. I mean, because there are a lot of firms that I met where they do a little bit of tax, they do a little bit of bookkeeping, they local advisory, they even do a little bit of insurance, they do a little bit of investing. And I was just like. I can't keep up with all that. Yeah, it's too much to be an expert in. Yes. Yeah. And also one of the things that, you know, I started looking kind of down the road, which it was absolutely not relevant at the time, was looking at things like, okay, all right, as you scale, let's talk about like practice management software. If you're doing all of these things, like, how are you going to find a practice management software that's going to help you with that?

KC Brothers:

Yes, because just like languages, they're all different. And you need to find the one that works best for the way your firm operates. Yeah, that's a really good point. The definition, your identity as a firm, helps communicate to the market and even, um, a referral network of sorts. Uh, who you are, what you do. But it also helps you identify. Other things, uh, your operations, your processes, whether it's like actual step by steps or even literal softwares that you're going to be looking into or ignoring because it's very clear that this is not meant for me.

Terrell Turner:

Absolutely, because, you know, we decided early on that tax just wasn't an area we wanted to, you know, develop in and we didn't want to grow it, you know, a practice in that area. So, like, tax is not something we do. So a lot of the time, like. Even like, you know, over the past, let's say a couple months diving a bit deeper into like, Hey, we got to pick a practice management software that is good for where we're going, where we're taking the business. And so. When I talk to different accounting firms, ones that were primarily taxed, I know, okay, whatever they're recommending may not and whatever factors that they consider may not be relevant for us. So what it does, it helps us not have to consider things that just aren't relevant because like we know what we do and we don't do tax work. So if this, you know, solution you're providing or talking about is heavy tax focus. That's not the right fit for us because I think there are so many options out there that you need some way to narrow it down to what is relevant so we can, you know, spend our time on the things that really matter to us and the clients we serve?

KC Brothers:

Yeah, and not just matter but bringing the most well, I guess a definition of it mattering Making you money and just yeah making that day to day, just a smooth, well oiled machine for everybody.

Terrell Turner:

Absolutely. And I think also it helped us on the recruiting side as well, because when it comes down to hiring talent, yeah, talent reaching out to us, like a lot of times, since we are so clear, like I would say probably once a month I get, you know, whether it's people who have recently graduated or people who have experience in accounting and finance, reach out like, Hey, I know who you guys work with. I know what types of companies you serve. Like, hey, if you're in the market looking for a senior accountant or an accounting manager, hey, please keep me in mind. And, you know, it's one of those great things of knowing like, hey, not only do we have a brand as a firm, but it's like people know what we do. They know the type of companies and the clients we serve. It wouldn't be a surprise to them if they came on board and say, well, oh, I didn't know you guys work with law firms. It's like, it's very clear.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Charles. Nice to be with you today.

Terrell Turner:

Thank you for having me.