Glenn Harper and Julie Smith’s Approach to Transforming the Accounting Industry

Glenn Harper and Julie Smith discuss transforming their traditional CPA firm into a modern, advisory-focused business by optimizing processes, leveraging technology, and defining clear client profiles.

Transcript

KC Brothers: 0:05

Welcome to another episode of Practice Success. I am one of the hosts, Kasey Brothers from Canopy, and I'm here today with Glenn Harper and Julie Smith. Um, Glenn and Julie, will you give a brief introduction of yourselves? And then Glenn, I'd like you to talk a little bit about the business, when you found Julie, the evolution to what you are doing now today.

Julie Smith: 0:31

You go for

Glenn Harper: 0:31

it. I'm Glenn Harper. I've been practicing CPA for I think for 33 years now. I've been in practice. Um, and just run a 13 person firm in Columbus, Ohio and do a couple other side businesses on the side as well. Um, and Julie runs the show here at the firm.

Julie Smith: 0:49

So I'm the head barista. I always make sure everybody has all their coffee and all the flavorings that they want. Um, no, I think, you know, I started with Glenn 10 years ago and, you know, you talked about, don't undercut, because I know what you do.

Glenn Harper: 1:06

She's a barista, I swear. That's, I do the gutters.

Julie Smith: 1:09

Um, and we kind of came into, you know, Glenn had a traditional firm. He had a partner and, you know, Glenn, you can kind of talk about the evolution and then I can kind of end with where we are now.

Glenn Harper: 1:19

Yeah, we were a traditional firm, but we didn't know any better cause we never really worked anywhere else. We just kind of started the firm together and we did that for, you know, 25 years and just knew there was a better way to do things. And we could tell most of our clients, the most successful ones, had some sort of CEO or a practice manager that kind of ran the operations and kind of connected the accountants and the staff to the outside people and did the thing where you can actually run a practice. And just, it kind of ran, it ran the show. So, um, I was on a quest to find a, uh, we, she's now called the Julie, but to find somebody to do that, she started off as an assistant and we just were like, she's like, well, we got to do a lot here. And I said, well, I know that's why I brought you on board. So ultimately I split from my partner and we brought some staff and clients and started up our current company. And the rest is history went from purely transactional silos to running an advisory firm with processes, procedures and culture and, you know, job titles and hired for the position versus just putting a warm body in. Um, still kept doing accounting and tax work and do those things, but we changed the focus of the firm to run it more like a business and create a good relationship value for the client.

KC Brothers: 2:34

And then got to the point where you now also one of your side projects is empower CPAs where you are taking the principles that you have executed on within your own firm to then advise other firms as to how to be more operationally efficient.

Julie Smith: 2:52

Absolutely. And that's where I come in. And so, you know, I have a little bit of a, I have an MBA, not CPA. So I have the wrong letters behind my name for this industry. Um, and so, you know, I have that corporate background that's very ingrained in me in regards to the processes and systems and how we get to where we need to be. And so to be able to kind of take that and put it into a system, Small business and not have to go to a board of directors 14 times to change. Something was really, really interesting to me. I like came the first time I wanted to do something, I came with like a PowerPoint and like the steps and the agenda. And he was like, we don't have to do any of that here, you know? And, but it's still, I think it was really good for how we went through this process and this change was, it was very deliberate. It was very, you know, how do we do it strategically? We weren't just throwing something on the wall and hoping it stuck. And I think. Who would have thought that this would have been my passion 10 years ago. You would have told me 20 years ago, this is what I would be doing. And I would be passionate about it. I would have laughed at you. Um, but out of all of that came this passion to just go into firms and watch them succeed. And how can I help them do that? And so that's where Empower CPA started. And then. It's been fun. We go into firms and, you know, I've met so many people along the way and different partnerships and different, you know, items where then we can take them back to our firm to make it even better, right? Cause that's all we're striving to do is just be better day to day. Um, and from that came our podcast. Um, it was right during COVID and I was like, What? I feel like we need a sense of community. Entrepreneurs are so lonely out here, right? It's really hard for people to relate, especially in that time. And so we started this podcast, empowering entrepreneurs for our clients. And I think after two episodes there, we had a long list of people who wanted to be on it that weren't clients, ironically. So we pivoted and shifted and I think we're in our third year of doing two podcasts per month with just entrepreneurs and their journey and everybody being able to learn from them. And, you know, being able, if we can create a shortcut for anybody, that's what we want to do.

Glenn Harper: 4:54

Accountants historically are such a, uh, don't call it, excuse me, abused. Industry because we just want to help and we don't know how to bill for that We nobody knows what we do behind the scenes. Yeah, nobody cares really because that's what that's what you do They just want to make sure that

KC Brothers: 5:10

at the end of the day They're getting paid and they can pay their people and they're being they're achieving their dreams, but they don't know to your point Yeah,

Glenn Harper: 5:17

they're worried about taking care of the client first Yeah, and if you don't take care of yourself and your team, you really can't service the client to the best of your ability So that's what the transition is all about

KC Brothers: 5:27

Yeah, I love it. I think, to your point, so accounting has been around since the dawn of time. We always have to balance books. Profitability is a thing that's not going anywhere. But one thing that you said just made me think, like, the crux of the American dream that I think is still very much alive today Is the idea of I can become an entrepreneur at any time. Now there's no barrier to entry, right? Like anybody can be a small business owner based on whatever it is that they're wanting to do, whatever idea, whatever skillset they have available. But it's not uncommon that entrepreneurs are not super financially literate. And I think the data today is even showing how financial literacy with an adults in general is just declining. And so there was. Always going to be a need, not just for accounting services, but maybe even more so for all of these advisory aspects that we're talking about. Um, so let's jump back. Let's jump back just a little bit, um, to accounting, um, accounting firms, cause you talked about how you had, your have currently still, um, your own firm. Um, how, and when did you? see that, okay, the model that I've built here, um, is one that is unique and that I can now start to take to other firms and advise them on what was the difference you were seeing between the way you were running your firm and others were running their own firms.

Glenn Harper: 7:04

So I think the cool thing is, is that I knew there is, there had to be a better way and can't be just come in and grind out and kill yourself nine hours a week. Like it couldn't be that way. Other entrepreneurs weren't doing clients. Weren't doing that. And I knew there was something going, I knew there was a way to do it, I just didn't know, but having no experience, didn't go quest for the knowledge, just didn't know, right? But Julie then found some knowledge and, you know, put me in a hammer lock and made me go to the actual No, literally,

Julie Smith: 7:32

this is a funny story. I signed us up for a conference during tax season. Cause I'm like, knowledge is power. How do, like, you know, knowledge is power. And he's like, tax season, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's two weeks before we're supposed to go and he's like, yeah, I'm not going to that. And I was like, okay, fine. I'm still going. He's like, wait, no, you can't do it. Like, no. And I was like, no, if we don't go do this, how do we learn? You're just gonna continue to do what you've always done, right? And he was like, fine, I'll go, you know, and like literally five minutes into the conference. He's like, we're gonna do that. And I'm like, okay, mister, I'm not coming.

Glenn Harper: 8:09

No, I was like, can you do this part? Cuz I think I can do that part. Cuz it's like a two tiered thing. She said, got it. I said, all right, let's do it. And that was it. So we tore the whole firm apart, redid everything, I mean, top down and every system process, we had to recustomize it all, redid it all. And then after we did that,

Julie Smith: 8:28

how long did it take you to do that? It's probably about 18 months. I mean, we went to a conference in May and. By the end of next, the following tax, maybe it was about a year at the end of the following tax season, it was like any new client, this is the process. This is the system. This is what we're doing.

KC Brothers: 8:48

Okay. Pause there. 18 months is a decent amount of time. You said it included a tax season, right? If you started end of May through to the end of the other tax season.

Julie Smith: 9:01

Um, no, I should say we like rebuild an entire CRM program. We, we got. You know, new employees because not, not everybody was fitting the mold of where we were going and what we were doing. And if I can give one piece of advice. It's okay if where you're going doesn't mean that everybody wants to come with. I'll sit and listen to you. I'll talk to you. It's, it's okay. Like it doesn't, it's not a, don't feel so guilty. And him and I kind of had some struggles in regards to that. Um, as we went through that, but it's okay if that doesn't happen. And so, I mean, we re, when I tell you, we rebuilt our systems and our process, like ever, we had zero processes starting and, We have what one person that we started with 10 years ago that's still with us. If that gives you any indication of just, we're different now. Right. And, and I think that's okay. Lean into it, not away from it.

KC Brothers: 9:54

So again, you probably didn't know it was going to be 18 months when you started that process, but what, what was the dream? What made you feel like I need to do this. It's going to be worth it. Or, or what was the pain that was so heavy? You know, it could have been one or the other. Okay.

Glenn Harper: 10:09

It was. It was the absolute belief that I see other bigger firms doing it. Why not? Why not us? Why can't we do it? And just going through, just doing the same thing year after year after year, and just no appreciation from clients, the staff, just people, just, it was just like, it's gotta be better than this. Like this has been doing this for 25 years or has got to be a change. And so the drive for like, there has to be where the quest was there. Amen. Once we made that commitment, it didn't matter how long it would take because I knew where we were going was going to be way better than where we were.

Julie Smith: 10:47

And I think for me, you know, I'm different, right? And so when I'm being in a room full of people that we're all striving for the same thing, I literally said to him that same time when he was like, do you got this? I was like, we're going to do it. Better than anyone in this room. And so the ability to be able to have that control over your destination, your drive, I think is huge. Because if you put your mind to it, you can do it. So we both had this just huge commitment of like, we are gonna be one of the best firms out there doing what we're doing. How do we do that? Everyone's gotta be best. We have to have the best of everything, you know? Mm-Hmm. And, I mean, we both committed to it. I, I mean,

Glenn Harper: 11:23

and just as we went out and spoke with other firms and conventions and stuff and seminars and stuff, we. We took a lot of things from different people, and we kind of took the best of everything and kind of made it our own, and that takes some time, and we've retooled a few things quite often, but, but that's all like, okay, this worked then, but this is three years later, this, we gotta, we have to tweak this because things have moved a little different direction, and so it's been a, it's a, it's an ongoing process, and that's the thing, yeah. If you're not working on your business, you're going to fall behind again. So that's really the goal. The

KC Brothers: 11:55

difference between working on versus working in. And so in that regard, you have touched on two things, and so I'm, I want to make sure to double down on both of those, but also see if you have any others to add to the list. But it sounds like at least you're like, okay, we have to have, I mean, terminology is ICP, um, and I deal client profile. We have to have identified who we're going to work for and therefore who we are not going to work for, um, and saying no. And I know that that's a pretty big topic right now in the industry. It's to your point, Glenn, um, it's hard to say no to these people that you feel like you're. I mean, it's funny you in the industry, we use the word service, but also like, you know, take that out of the, the billing context you're serving, right? That there's like an, an emotional attachment there a bit. Um, and so making that jump to saying it's okay, I'm not going to hurt people's feelings. Like you said, Julie, is it something I need to do for me and my business? That is one that you've mentioned already in terms of, again, Growing, um, progressing, becoming the best firm. Another one you briefly touched on was just by you saying we, you overhauled your CRM. So tech, right? Ensuring that you have the tech that works for you, doesn't hinder you. The right. And well, I guess the third you've already mentioned too is processes, ensuring that you have things it's established. Do you want to dive into any of these some more or are there more on the list that you would think

Julie Smith: 13:33

when you do technology is huge. And that's one of the things that we really dove into is we had all this technology on the table. But no one was really using it and I can like proudly say today that the technology that we use I can probably use better than any consultant that's employed by that, that firm, because it was like, how do you create efficiency? Yes, these should all be creating something that eliminate. A step or something like why? Why would it be doing this twice? Or why is this person doing it? But then this person is going back and redoing it. And so really diving into what those efficiencies could create. And I still say today, like, I am so open minded about technology and what we bring into the firm, but I'm very upfront. Like, it has to create efficiency. It has to eliminate at least a second if it's a second per our day for everybody's day, then I've done my job right and I've evaluated it. Um, so I think that is really important because I think everybody says, well, we have all this. I spend so much on technology, but are you really using it and being curious like, and it's okay to bring in an outside person to say, like, how do we better use this? How can we utilize this to, you know, eliminate step one, two and three. Where our staff just starts at step four. How do we automate it? We, you know, whatever does that look like for your firm, but don't be afraid to take that first step towards that because I think people are scared.

Glenn Harper: 14:54

Well, I think part of it too, is that as a firm, you're not sure what you're billing for, what your services are, who's doing what, and what they want to do for a client. How can you set up your CRM software to track those things and to assign the tasks and projects to do that? If you don't even know what you're trying to accomplish. So we said we retool, we went back, back, back, back and said, okay, what is it that we're trying to do for each client and assign a project and tasks to that so we can break it down to the smallest piece. And then we can assign those tasks and projects across the board and leverage that technology to make it so they're just clicking off tasks.

Julie Smith: 15:32

Can I tell a funny quick story? Because I think it's really important that like we are where we are today and it looks really glorious, right? Like from the outside looking in. But it wasn't without a ton of missteps falling on our face, one of us picking each other up. So we were redoing this whole CRM system and I had hired someone to come in and kind of help retool that. And I kept asking him, do you want to be a part of this? Like, these are really big conversations. I think you should be a part of this. And he's like, no, Julie, no. And I'm like, okay, but I think like we think a lot differently in regards to input and output. I mean, I asked no short of 20 times. So I'm like, you know, 20 hours into this straight one week, trying to, you know, get this off the ground. And I go in and I'm showing him and he goes, this is not at all what I had in mind. If I would have been smarter, I probably would have walked out right then. But I was like, no. Okay. So we literally started all over again.

Glenn Harper: 16:37

The output that I was looking for, that I thought we apparently have a communication problem, I thought this was going to be. was not what it was going to drive, so we had to go back and retool it. Well, we, us, to be honest, Julie did it. And it was a very humbling experience. And from that moment on, uh, when I'm asked to participate, I participate and, uh, make sure that I get the input of what I'm looking for. Or what the firm needs. Because again, she looks at different things, I look at different things. She didn't always right or wrong, it's just how do you get the right systems to give you what you're looking for. Yes. To do the things you want to do. And even

Julie Smith: 17:12

today, like our dashboards look differently on what we are managing inside of the firm or what, what KPIs we're looking at. I look at them daily, weekly, monthly, you know what I mean? And so, I think that understanding too is so important of like putting pen to paper and, and, and, and Like you talked about the ideal client, like this was Glenn and I getting in a room and being like, what is our vision? What is our mission? What is our core values? And what is the ideal client we're going to serve? So then we could go communicate that back to our team and stick to it because they had to hold us accountable to that as well.

KC Brothers: 17:44

Well, and how do you find your ideal client without the data, right? How can you make these decisions without the data? And you have the ability naturally as an accountant and by the work that you're doing. To have the data, but are you, are you storing it in an appropriate way? Are you actually collecting it? I'm doing air quotes because, um,

Glenn Harper: 18:08

yeah, in your brain. Nobody else knows it.

KC Brothers: 18:12

Yeah. And this is not uncommon where people have access, but don't know quite how to utilize it. Data analysis is a hard skill. I think accountants are So we've set up more than anyone aside from someone who might actually go through to be certified and be a strictly a data analyst. Accountants have a great, uh, base level understanding of just numbers and principles and concepts that do set them up to be proficient. dangerous to be a data analyst, but it takes time. Even if you have the skills, the time it takes to analyze data is hard. And it's hard to be like, okay, I can and should slow down to speed up in this regard, take the time to look at data, take the time to set up dashboards, triggers, alerts, whatever it might be to then inform me. So I can make these decisions so I can see, Oh, this type of client is a more profitable type of client. This colleague is more efficient in this regard, like, and being able to then make all those fine tune tweaks to your business, not just your clientele, but also internally to help you perform. In a better way,

Julie Smith: 19:33

well, and then you take it a step further and it's like, not can we just be able to see that data now, but All of our team can. So now they're holding themselves to a standard that they know what that is because we've communicated what those expectations goals are, but now we're just monitoring it. So we're not the, you know, we're not necessarily the ones who are going in and retooling it. They have it all at their fingertips.

Glenn Harper: 19:57

And remember the, the, the hardest part about being an entrepreneur is, is knowing what you're really selling. What is it that you really are selling to your customer as accountants? Traditionally, we think we're selling financial statements and tax return, and that is. That is a thing we do. That's an output. That is not what the client wants a relationship. They want to know what's handled. They want to know when they call you, you answer. They want to know what you're thinking about them and you're doing things for them. Now they don't get to see those things. And if you try to do things hourly, it's really, really hard because they don't like those unsurprising bills. So you have to have a relationship and the client just has to know we're going to do all these things for x versus. We won't do anything for four months and it will bill you by the hour for all these things. It just doesn't work that way. So knowing what it is your product and your clients are, that's the key. And we do that all the time for our clients that we have. What are they actually selling and help them sell it better. And by running your own firm better as an accountant with the data, knowing what you're really selling, when you go to advise your client from an advisory standpoint, you understand their business and what they're trying to do. You can help them figure out what they're selling and they do better. You're not just, here's what you owe in taxes and here's your balance sheet. You're actually helping them run a more efficient, tax efficient business. Which is what everybody wants. So to your point, entrepreneurs just don't get that kind of help.

KC Brothers: 21:17

Um, we've covered so much and I feel like only this deep, um, just so just scratched the surface of so many great concepts that are potentially rather new to the industry at large due to the fact that accountants are burnt out and they're like, you said yourself. There you felt like there was a better way and Julie you came in and helped identify that now maybe as we wrap up will you give a Overview of these different businesses and how you've the things that you two have now built together

Julie Smith: 21:59

Well, and it's funny because we missed one, but you were talking about it and I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot about that one So Harper and Company which primarily serves Entrepreneurs, that's our ideal client. That's the CPA firm. CPA firm, the advisor, yes. And so from that, we started noticing, because we have the data, we started noticing And that was where

KC Brothers: 22:19

you had your test kitchen, where you did everything we've talked about, the finding Yeah, and we're still

Julie Smith: 22:24

testing.

KC Brothers: 22:25

Yes.

Julie Smith: 22:27

Okay. Those poor people, they're the game changers. Um, but if you're not, we have to be, you know, evolving and changing, and the summer is the perfect time to be able to do that. But So we have that business, um, and then from that, because we had the data, we were noticing that we had three to four clients we were turning away. So we have kind of an intense prospect, prospecting, um, process, and they just weren't the ideal client. And we were at the point in our business where if you're not the ideal client, you just kind of don't get through the door. So we did start PeerTax. Um, which, uh, serves the 1040 clientele that don't want the, don't need the advisory. They don't really want a tax projection. They're really just looking for a transaction and putting an output.

KC Brothers: 23:13

Really quick. I'm going to pause you right there because what you have said is that not explicitly is that there is enough business out there to provide good profit and revenue and still say no. And in a sense too, and you might be going there with your, the next side projects that you guys have done together to fuel quote unquote competition.

Glenn Harper: 23:42

So let me show you this. The, if you, if. You would be hard pressed to find any accounting CPA firm or accounting firm that does not have more work than they can handle. That's just, they always are too busy. So now, once you realize, Being too busy, being bigger is not better. Being better is better. So once you're getting, you don't want to keep getting bigger and be more busy. You want to be bigger to get the right kind of client. Once you recognize that, that's when you compare it out and you can make these changes like we've been trying to do.

KC Brothers: 24:13

Yeah. And so really then you were going, you established another firm to provide just a specific service for a specific type of client. Continue. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Julie Smith: 24:22

And it, and it came really easy because, We have the technology. We have the processes in order to do it. It was just like plugging and playing. Right. And so that's where it becomes fun because you've already done the hard work, but it's serving a different ideal client, which has been really fun. So that started in January. And so that's just been another fun factor to work through during tax season. Um,

Glenn Harper: 24:44

it's never too late. You never, you don't wait to start, if you wait to get married, to have kids, to buy a house, to start a business, you'll never do it. So just jump in and go do it and you'll figure it out as you go.

Julie Smith: 24:56

Um,

Glenn Harper: 24:56

but yeah. And

Julie Smith: 24:57

that's what we're doing. Like that's the fun part of being an entrepreneur though, is being able to figure it out as you go and being able to pivot. Like you don't, no one fails, right? You just are pivoting consistently. Um,

KC Brothers: 25:10

But then you also have, and maybe this is where I was trying to lead you to go, but you weren't taking my bait. So I'll, I'll be a little bit more explicit. I apologize. Um, you then also have your business empower CPAs, where you've taken your learnings again. Like, I think there's this fear that, okay, if I don't take the job, someone else is going to take it. And it's the scarcity mentality. It's I need, I need every client I can get. And you've already said that in different words that you don't, you need the right client. Um, but imagine a world, I know this is going to be crazy where CPA firms say no and then say, no, but I know another firm that works specifically with your industry. That's crazy

Glenn Harper: 25:58

talk. That's blasphemy. What are you talking about? Blasphemous never talk. No, we dream of that. And I think that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to break down those barriers where again, I would never speak to them before. They're going to take my business now. Yeah. I don't want to help her.

Julie Smith: 26:12

I asked this when I came into, I was like, so, um, are there some lunch and learns that we can go to, to learn what everybody else is doing? He's like, we don't talk to

Glenn Harper: 26:20

them. Our mission with the empower CPA

Julie Smith: 26:24

was

Glenn Harper: 26:25

really to try to elevate the industry. And if we could help just one firm, cause again, if, if, if you surveyed a hundred firms. 95 of them are, like, getting beat down. We can just help one firm. That, that's a good day's work. And if we can help provide that shortcut and help them out, that's awesome. Right? Because we're, we're trying to help the whole industry. Not just, not just about us. It's about the industry itself. And if we can help the industry, then that means they're going to help the clients more. And if they can help the clients more, our passion, my passion, Julia's too, is other entrepreneurs. And if we can help other entrepreneurs make it, save enough tax dollars, put their kids through college, go on a vacation, who doesn't want to do that? And all we got to do is help, help some other people figure that out. That's what the joy is. So that's the, that's the reason.

Julie Smith: 27:12

And I think Empower CPA, the whole thing was like, we went through this. This whole change, this whole evolution, and it took us this amount of time. But what we learned, if we could cut a firm's time in half of being able to do that, and we can just share our shortcuts of like, yeah, we did try it that way, but that's, this is how that's going to end up because that's just where we are. And I think, you know, for me, my passion is watching everybody else be able to succeed. And so I think that's where that passion comes from. It's like changing the industry to watch everybody else succeed. And so providing that shortcut is how Empower CPA got started.

KC Brothers: 27:47

Yeah. I love it. Um, thank you so much for your time. I think this whole conversation, or I hope at least that this gives our listeners a lot of hope for the ability to take that leap that, yeah, it might be an 18 month commitment, maybe it'll be less because people like you have already ironed out some things. Technology has already come a long way just in the last year or two, right? With the. Uh, A. I. And all sorts of things. The future for accounting is not bleak. I think there are lots of opportunities for every firm to look and see how things will only better operationalize their firms, make them more successful, give them more time back. Um, yeah. Thank you again. Glenn and Julie.

Glenn Harper: 28:35

Thank you on your show. Hope this was helpful. It's a fun.