Practice Success Podcast

Jessie Williams on Shifting From an Overworked Firm to an Optimized Accounting Firm

• Canopy • Season 2 • Episode 4

Share episode

Jessie Williams, an experienced accountant and Canopy user, covers the importance of setting boundaries in the accounting profession, to maintain good mental health. This episode discusses the challenges of balancing professional and personal life, especially in a high-pressure profession like accounting, where long hours and client demands can lead to burnout. Jessie shares her journey from working in large firms to creating a practice that prioritizes well-being, offering practical advice on how accountants can reclaim their time, set boundaries, and achieve sustainable success.

KC Brothers:

Welcome to the Canopy Practice Success Podcast. I'm excited to be here for another episode with Jesse Williams. My name is Kasey Brothers. I am one of the hosts of the podcast. Jesse, give us a quick introduction of yourself.

Jessie Williams:

Well, first and foremost, I'm a Canopy user. And I literally just came back from Engage and met lovely people at Canopy. And I somehow got connected with you guys for this podcast. Podcast. I love podcasts and I have a firm I want to say a lifestyle for when I'm, I'll explain why and why I'm mentioning that, but we do, we do have a full practice tax and accounting. Um, we do do everything for our clients. We solve problems. That's what it is. And if I do not do it in my wheelhouse, I will find someone else that does because my job is to connect them. And With the right advisors or right providers for services and to solve their problems. That's exactly, that's mainly what we do. And that's tax planning, a phone call, a referral to a dentist, whatever it is, that's what we do. And, um, I love what I do. I love the people and I love what my job, what my business has allowed me to do. Um, interact with great people like this and be on podcasts and just talk one of the things I love to do.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. Uh, accounting is a people heavy business and I feel like from every interaction I've had with any accountant, from anything I've read, it is relationships, relationships, relationships, and how can I better cater to these relationships? How can I better serve? There's a lot of. Um, this feeling of personal responsibility of serving. Yeah. It's exhausting

Jessie Williams:

too.

KC Brothers:

Yes. Which leads us to our topic that um, we wanted to cover today. Yeah. Because that, it's such a good human desire to have Mm-Hmm. But it can light lead itself into. a lack of boundaries, which then can affect our mental health, which is today's topic.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah.

KC Brothers:

Um, talk to us a little bit more about why you're passionate about this.

Jessie Williams:

Well, I, first off, I love what I do. I always hated how our industry is set up. I traditionally came from the big four. You know, I went to a smaller public accounting from thinking that, no, what maybe I don't like big companies. Cause I do think I learned better in smaller groups. And I realized very quickly that it's just how they are positioning us. with our peers, with the clients and just the lack of boundaries in our personal lives. And just, it was just too much. Um, and you know, there's this fear of the client sometimes, and we have to jump when they call. And I just hated all of the high emotions during tax season, and it was just not healthy. And the people that we're aspiring to be, these partners, they're all overweight. They're always there. And if they're married, I don't know how that works, you know? So it's, I question like, why do I, and then I think about the income that these partners are making. I don't want to be 55, 60, and now making the income. That I currently make, you know what I'm saying? So it was something that I just, and I have to work 80 hours. I'm just exaggerating, but there's times you do work 80 hours. I have to work all these hours to say, to make 200k. It just didn't add up to me. So I quit my job, but I also didn't want to bring that poor practice over because This if you think of the stereotypes, there's no boundaries, like you said, um, you're always working, um, during tax season, you have no life. You know, I have a girlfriend whose mom is in the room right before the deadline and she has never spent a birthday with her up until I think maybe she started doing it three years now. Oh, that's insane.

KC Brothers:

I just saw something on LinkedIn. I'm trying to remember the gentleman's name, but he posted something about how he and his wife had planned when to get pregnant so that they would not have a baby during tax season.

Jessie Williams:

That is an actual joke that happens in public accounting.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. I got married in 2012. And that was the point he ended up making in his video, but it just goes to show too that when you don't have boundaries in your professional life, how much it can impact your personal life. And we are not professionals here. And we're not. Humans there,

Jessie Williams:

it's

KC Brothers:

all one person showing up every day for this, however many waking hours we are showing up and they bleed into each other and they impact each other. And if you don't think that you're kidding yourself. And if you

Jessie Williams:

don't acknowledge it. You know, and cause they always say, Hey, it's not personal. It's business, but it is because business funds, my personal lifestyle. And if I'm having it, it intertwines. And I think that's the first thing that people need to accept and change the narrative in a workplace, because. Now, mentally, I'm exhausted. I can't give my spouse, my kids, my, my, my family the time that they need, right? Because I stopped getting invites to certain things, you know, because we have that September 15 deadline. So our summer is gone. No one's inviting me to barbecues. You know, I remember one time I left working Saturday, had to run out at four just so I could be there for a good friend of mine for his birthday celebration. And it was so chaotic. Like I couldn't go home and take a shower and relax. I have to just go straight into it and freshen up in the car. So it's just like things like that. It's just so like toxic almost. And I think that we are mentally exhausting, exhausted because. We're giving so much to our clients. We're on the phone, we're talking, we're being this extrovert. And I feel sorry for the introverts who have to pretend to be extroverts because that's uncomfortable and you just need uncomfortableness right away. And, and then on top of that, we, we have to now perform work and we have to be, you know, Professional how we speak and when we're like dying on the inside, you know, we probably didn't eat properly We definitely didn't sleep because if you left work at 1 a. m And we're coming back in for nine. There's no sleeping there and that happens Regularly, I mean you could probably do it in your early 20s when you're straight out of college, but It's, it's not healthy at all. It's just, and mentally it's draining. It is.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. Okay, so there are two types of people I'm thinking of right now. And I want to know how you might talk to these people. One is the partner, right? And they can think, what do you mean? This is just how it's done. There's no other way. How would, how do you recommend I even get out of this? Or they could be thinking too. This is how it's done. Buck, buck up, you know, like what would your response, and I'll tell you who the second person is a little bit, what would your response be to those personalities?

Jessie Williams:

You know, first of all, I would say, take a look at a profession. Um, the younger generation are saying, no, I'm so happy to being disruptive. I love, I don't know what they, people say they're lazy, whatever the, they know boundary. They know who they are, they're very transparent, yes, they record everything, but they're transparent. Okay. But I love the transparency and you know, because of that's how it's been, no one wants to be an accountant. No one. Yeah.

KC Brothers:

And we see that. We see that in who's choosing to study. We see that in who's choosing to actually go into the profession and apply.

Jessie Williams:

Enrollment. Enrollment for accounting. Enrollment for tax is down. Yeah. It's down. So it's not like people is, they're going to school and they're finding out, Oh no, this is not a profession for me. They're not even bothering because they already know that they go to, they have to, you know, finish this study for some exam and then I gotta go to the big four, um, because that's how it's been done. Right. Um, and I have to be demeanored, talked down to, and be treated like crap because I'm a new hire. So that's what I would say to them. Like, take a look at your profession. Clearly it's not working. People are saying no.

KC Brothers:

And you and your firm will get left behind. It's just a matter of when, because talent's going to go somewhere and it's not going to come to you if you're not recognizing that there are better ways and that there are efficiencies that can be done to help accomplish maybe even the same amount of work, same amount of clients, um, but without the time.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah. Yeah. I know for us. practice. Like we just got to find a way to tap in and work is in, is an abundance. You know, we, as long as we find the right plan, we find the right, our nice niche, our nice rhythm and really stick to it and say no when needs to say no things will, will just keep going. And I mean, I have. that called me up and say, Hey, do you have capacity to do this? You know? So, um, they're recognizing that us solopreneurs were actually, we're actually needed, you know? So that's what I would say to them.

KC Brothers:

Okay. The second one is a non partner. We'll just say someone who's working at a firm who knows what seniority, but doesn't necessarily have control because they are not the owner. It's the culture of the firm. They feel like, well, I need, I need an income. What would you say to them?

Jessie Williams:

I would probably tell them my story. Yeah. Cause I was once there, right. You know, Because the more money you make, the older you get, the harder you think it is for you to leave. And, you know, seven years ago, making 120k, you know, I'm young, I don't have any kids, I'm just newly married. I don't have that much debt, you know, it's just student loans, of course. I'm, I'm doing great, you know, and I do taxes on my friends and family on the side and I probably make a little extra 30k there. Right. And I had to ask myself, life is too short, like to be doing something every single day, the majority of your day that you hate. I mean, if you love it, you love it. I'm not going to say this to some people, this is it. They're built for

KC Brothers:

it. But

Jessie Williams:

if you love it, stay. If you don't love it. Then you got our

KC Brothers:

options. There are

Jessie Williams:

options options and you are in control. No one is, you know, um, I was just speaking to a young lady. I met at the engage and she has a 2 year old. She's currently pregnant. She has her own business and she works. Similar like me, we're trying to make that transition. And I asked her when she's currently discussing that with her husband, and she doesn't want her to leave. She thinks it's too soon. She's two years in her business. And then on top of that, she says to her, I said, well, what is stopping you? And she goes again, him. And I say to her that what's the worst that could happen if you quit your job? That she fails at earning her own business. And I said, you just go get a job. You'll always, we will always have a job.

KC Brothers:

Everyone wants you.

Jessie Williams:

Yes. I said, say that to your husband and have this baby and quit your job. And I asked her how much she made. She said gross last year, 28 K. I said, when you quit your job, you're going to make a hundred K. I guarantee you swing a hundred K. Just quit your job. You're going to make, cause the time you're investing in someone else's dream, you can invest in yourself. And it will happen. It will. Yeah,

KC Brothers:

yeah. I mean some of us are more risk averse than others. Some of us have more of that entrepreneurial spirit than others. Yeah. Wherever you land on either of those spectrums, I see accounting as such a perfect opportunity regardless of those traits, right? Yeah. It's, it's a perfect opportunity. It's always going to be scary to jump in, but the reason I see it that way is because we're actually seeing, um, a decrease in financial literacy amongst adults. Um, but I think also we're still, we're starting to see this revival of small businesses and entrepreneurs. And so you have people who have these business desires.

Jessie Williams:

But

KC Brothers:

don't know the business.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah. Yeah.

KC Brothers:

That want to see these things come to pass, but could easily fail rather quickly if they don't have expert advice.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah.

KC Brothers:

Now you said one of my favorite buzzwords a little bit ago. And I always have to say it twice because I never know which way to say it, niche or niche.

Jessie Williams:

No, no. I'm thinking about it. I never had to think about it. I

KC Brothers:

know. And then I get in my head about it. I just need to memorize the phonetic spelling or something. Yeah. Yeah. But, um. You do that. You find an ideal client profile or an ICP. And you have a more targeted approach and it's instead of casting a net wide, you're shooting fish in a barrel, you know, and, and you're able to then, um, up, Or strengthen your expertise and therefore charge more and have this balanced accounting professional experience that doesn't have to be anything like these traditions that we've seen so far in the industry.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah. You know, and the thing is, is that, you know, I shared a story that when I started, I I made a hundred K my first year, cold turkey left, right? Um, and I think is, is that people feel like they need to replace their income. Okay. And I did not replace my little 120 I was making at the time. I did a budget because I'm a financial person. How much do I need to live on? You know how much that was? 60K. It was 60k. I was living in the tri state. Now, granted that New York City has always been relatively high. I lived in Jersey City at the time, and I'm not paying city taxes, so I'm saving there. And it's a little bit less expensive than Brooklyn, where my mom and my siblings live. And I gave up my car. So where could I cut back that I don't need? You know, so when you boil it down to, I didn't need 120 and think about it. 120 and w two is not what you take home. So make

KC Brothers:

the risk less risky so that you can take the jump. Yeah, exactly.

Jessie Williams:

So making a hundred kid gross when no one in my business. All went to me. What am I really paying for? I paid for a membership to WeWork. I, you know, I paid for the software, which was a thousand dollars and that's all what I really needed. I didn't make a fuss about business cards or what have you. I focus on LinkedIn and I grew my business through LinkedIn. And then I had a little bit of money. I got a coach. I figured it out. And next, you know, I made 200K, you know. And you just, you just kept going, keep going. Then you learn from connecting with people that this is what they do. This help, you know, this is an app that will make you do it faster so you can spend more time. Hey, get an admin. So you learn as you go. And this is, you're going to figure it out. And people are going to be so happy when you quit your job. They're going to support you in ways that you didn't even know. You're going to find other like, like minded entrepreneurs. You're going to find, who are going through the same thing you're going through. And it's not that bad, you know, it's, it's fun. It's, I would do it again. I wish I did it sooner, but the timing was right. The timing I did it was perfect.

KC Brothers:

Yeah, yeah, I'd say like if anything, I hope listeners come away with hope or inspiration that again, if this is the path that they choose that they can go after it, but also that the the rat race isn't Worth it isn't what shouldn't be the norm all of these things, right? Yeah. Um, I heard anecdotally a while ago how Depressed accountants are, or like how on a list of, um, occupations, how high accountants fall on likelihood to have mental. Health issues, depression, whatever it may be. Right. Yeah. Um, and that shocked me and I'm working for a company who creates software in an attempt to make their lives easier. I was just like, Oh, if only they knew, if only they knew that they're in 2024. We have so many things that are accessible to them, but it's hard. I know by learning about what you all do, I haven't done it myself, but just seeing the cyclicality, the seasonality, the demands, the changes that come through, um, the federal government, the, these client calls and that, that, that good human desire to serve there. It's hard to find the time. I love this phrase, um, to slow down, to speed up and, and to feel like you can be justified in that, in, in digging deep, not just into your own motivations, but digging deep into your business and your operations.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah. You know, I feel that it goes back to just starting with yourself. And I think if you personally have poor health habits, and I'm saying when I say health habits, health, we're doing with your, your boundaries, your rest, your sleep, your mental way of thinking, um, you know, global. As we go older, we have to start grabbing things that help us perform as better human beings in any aspect, even if going to the gym, like, you know, Tom Brady, the world's greatest athlete, like he recovers just as much as he works out because. Let's just face it, he's not, uh, you know, he's not in his 20s anymore. So sleep is important. So that's not something that in our profession that is glorified. We wear a badge of honor that we do all this work and, you know, it's just something to be proud of. And I would hear people like, Oh my gosh, I worked like 60 hours last week and it's not even tax season. I'm like, Yeah. You should keep that to yourself, you know, um, but it's, it's, it's mentally draining too because like just this tax season, we had three clients that passed away. And it's like, we're going about our routine and checking in and the poor husband or kids have to say, you know, what's her name passed away. And, and we have to like stop for a second and send something and apologize. We didn't know one person yelled at me because they were trying to book a call to tell me on the phone. And I said to them that, you know, I've been trying to reach you. About your 2022 taxes and you have just ignored my emails like, you know, um, basically indirectly I was telling him I don't have time to jump on a call when you don't even have time to answer an email. So he got really upset with me for that because I was supposed to know what was going on apparently. But with all that to say is that we have a lot of dump. A lot of stuff gets dumped on us and then we still have to get up and perform even if. Our stuff isn't always right, right? So if we're fighting with our husband, fighting with kids, you know, if we didn't eat right, if we have a headache, we still have to show up, you know? And that takes a toll on you eventually.

KC Brothers:

Yes,

Jessie Williams:

yes. You know, being stuck in a house all day, if you work from home, that might not be the best thing for you. Like, I literally don't have anyone coming into my office space. Everyone works remotely, but I have an office space because I need to get out of the house, get out of the house. And it's important for my mental health to get out, walk and move and, and see people and make conversations. So I know I need that because I've done the work and sitting still. And asking myself, what do I need? I need to work on the first thing in the morning. I need to eat my breakfast as soon as I'm done and I need to take my time. And, but I can do all of that and get on my desk at eight from eight to 12. I work. No one could get through to me. My mom cannot reach me on my cell phone because that is my time to do the most important tasks of the day and whatever that is. So at one point, uh, the important tasks is growing my business. So I spend four hours. on following up marketing sales activity. And then from one from noon to 1230 is my lunch break. Don't make fun of me. I take the hour and a half

KC Brothers:

from noon

Jessie Williams:

to one

KC Brothers:

30.

Jessie Williams:

Yes. From noon to one 30. And then my phone gets off to sleep mode.

KC Brothers:

And from

Jessie Williams:

one 30 to about five. I work. I make, I make, have call schedule and I schedule them 15 minutes in between cause I need to go to the bathroom. I need to give myself time. And then after that, five o'clock I'm going to eat dinner. Even if I'm still in the office, I'm going to eat dinner because I go to bed, let's say eight. I'm not trying to eat that late. So I sometimes I eat dinner and then go home. If I'm already home, I eat dinner and then lock back on and say, okay, what was my day looking like tomorrow? Cause I'm intentional. The day is not going to run me. I'm going to run the day.

KC Brothers:

Yes. Amen.

Jessie Williams:

And I get home and I plan my gym bag. I get my meals ready. That's a typical day that I do after I've realized that my mental health is important.

KC Brothers:

So I

Jessie Williams:

plan my day and I'm very structured in that. No, every single day is not like that. It's not. Sometimes on Friday I sleep in. It's like, I'm tired because I may have one late night and it usually is like a Thursday or Wednesday. And which I hate to do because I feel it the next day because I'm not performing the next day like I was doing it all day today because I'm I'm going to another conference. I think you guys are going to be there. I'm not sure. Um, scaling heights. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll, I'll come harass whoever's there. So I have to like this. I just came back from engage last week. I'm here this week and now I'm going to scale heights. So everything needs to kind of like that needs, that needs my attention. I have to take care of it. So I'm like, all right, I'll work one late night. Cause I'm definitely going to do absolutely nothing on Sunday. I plan to do nothing sometimes. Yeah.

KC Brothers:

Yeah, I I'm so glad you mentioned so many of things those things but I want to call them out or double tap on them really quick um, I I mean, I'm, I'm young in my career. I've never experienced personally the badge of honor of four hours of sleep, partly because I think of when I was born and when I graduated college, but also because of the career trajectory that I've had so far. But one of my best friends, her husband worked for KPMG for several years. And he'd be working 60, 70, 80 hours, oftentimes to two or so weeks away from home on site with a client, um, leaving my best friend with the kiddos. Um, and I just remember being like, how, how effective are you after so many hours? Like you're all tired. Why are you, why not just take the time to refresh? I, I'm of the opinion that like, who am I kidding? My brain, when my brain is ready to shut off, it's ready to shut off and I can start again the next day. And instead of working 10 hours the day before, I can work seven hours for two days and get just as much done in 20 hours over two days, because I'm I'm doing it in the most optimal way. I'm taking advantage of my brain capacity. And I'm, I'm, you and I have such a similar schedule as a working mom, which is so funny that we don't talk about our male coworkers that way as working dads.

Jessie Williams:

Oh

KC Brothers:

gosh. A whole other topic, right? Yeah. But, um, I do, I've, I've had to set boundaries. There was even a time where We were renovating our home. So we were living with my in laws and my father in law is a chatterbox. And I remember saying to him, it was like 7. 55 and I was going to get on right at 8 or something like that. And he was, he had just asked me a big question and wanted to get into it. And I looked to him and I said, I am sorry Art, I cannot talk to you right now. If you would like to pencil down that question, I will gladly talk to you about it this evening over dinner. But I am going to log on. And I'm going to work so that I can be fully present later.

Jessie Williams:

Um,

KC Brothers:

and those things are really important to me. And I feel like, again, we mentioned this really early on in the conversation, but Seeing ourselves as holistic individuals, seeing how our work life impacts our personal life and vice versa. Um, I really believe that when we have balanced lives, we actually show up better in both places.

Jessie Williams:

I agree. I agree. Cause when I'm in my pocket, Of just having my schedule and letting my calendar be my guide. Um, and being intentional. Let me tell you, I am at my optimal like fitness level. I'm like, so giddy. I'm like more in love with my husband. I'm like growing up as a sister, you know, I'm killing it at work all because. I'm really balanced. And I, and I always used to say, maybe because I'm kind of like a Libra, I guess, and we, if one thing is out of whack, everything's out of whack for me. I need that to be balanced because. Like you said, everything is connected as an entrepreneur, everything like for me to show up at work. Cause I can't tap out. If I had a W2, I could say no, and I could now, but if I said, I'm going to have a call with a client today. It's hard for me to just be like, you know what? I need to have a mental day. It's very hard. Even even if I do, right, I will. But at work we could fib a little bit and say, you know what, I don't feel like going in today. And that's okay because the business will run without me. For the most part, and I'm trying to get there, right, but I'm not all the way there, like I'm still like very locked in, but I just need to, sometimes I need to tap out and I just, I can't because I have obligation if I don't do it today, you know, I'm going to this thing next week and it's not going to happen. So it's, it's very important for me to be, you know, the time that I've allotted to do this, I have to do it.

KC Brothers:

So if

Jessie Williams:

I ate something not so healthy on my lunch break, it affects my evening. So I'm intentional about what I eat for lunch too, that, that everything I try to do, I try. I'm not the most intentional person, but when it comes to my day and stuff like that, like when I'm having my social life, I'm not intentional at all. I just want to wing it. But yeah, I, if we go on vacation, I am not intentional what we do. You know what you plan and I will show up. I'm intentional, but showing up, I'll show up, but I don't want to plan anything. I know when I go home and I'm done, I just want to get ready for the next day. And once that is done, I just want to be a couch potato. I don't want to. Be involved in any intellectual conversations. Don't ask me anything. I don't want to make a decision. So yeah, that's, that's just how my day typically goes and just making sure I stay on track, um, and not to venture out too much, but I do.

KC Brothers:

And maybe last thing, this all comes back to. What do you want? Um, and do you feel like a lot of people know that?

Jessie Williams:

No, because they don't sit still people don't sit still Not

KC Brothers:

just accountants, but yeah

Jessie Williams:

in general like I mean literally sit still. Yeah, take a vacation by yourself I I've told people, you know, even if you have a spouse, you know, you could do something for yourself by yourself That's for you. You could go rent a hotel room and just sit there in a room You Go get a spa day and even as a man, go get your feet done and just sit there and just let your brain go and ask yourself, am I happy? Tap, tap it in with yourself. It's very important. And that's how goals get started. You know, I start setting my goals. For the year in October. So my birthday is in October. I take a vacation. Typically, I go back to where I'm from, Grenada. And I just have a personal retreat, if you will. And I've heard

KC Brothers:

of this concept of a think week, even, which I love.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah. I need two weeks. Okay. Okay. I need two weeks because I, um, what I do is I literally pick five things that I want to improve on in my life. And so sometimes obviously the business is there. Maybe my mental health or my, um, I forgot what I call it, but whatever. It's just being in tune with myself and family. Maybe I don't spend enough time with my nephews or what have you, but I picked things, my fitness, my, you know, every, anything I just laid down. And I, where do I want to be? I'm here and I want to be here. So what do I need to bridge? What are the activities that need to happen for me to get there? And then I kind of start scheduling it. And then I come back and I speak to the team. Well, this is what we're going to do. This is what I want. What are your thoughts? And we start building it up. And that happens from October all the way through December. And that gets us started for tax season. Um, is because I thoroughly thought of what I wanted. I envisioned it. And I literally, if I set a goal and I speak it too. So one of the things I want to do is more speaking engagements, right? I wanted to start doing speaking engagements. I wanted to do a podcast. Um, and you share that with the universe and the universe answers your friends. Listen.

KC Brothers:

Well, I've heard the phrase too, that, uh, a goal not shared is just a dream.

Jessie Williams:

I know why people, and people always say that, you know, I, I don't want to share my goal because I don't, are you embarrassed? What if it doesn't

KC Brothers:

happen? It's like, no, like, what if I keep sharing it? I may not be able to make it happen.

Jessie Williams:

Yes. And what if it does happen?

KC Brothers:

Yeah.

Jessie Williams:

That's, that's the scary part. And sometimes too, maybe you're not dreaming big enough.

KC Brothers:

Maybe we end with that. I don't know. That's a challenge. Dream bigger. I don't know. I don't know if you saw the movie Juno from ages ago. I think it was early 2000s, but it has some really good one liners in it and some you can really miss because it's just so It's so tightly written and, and pretty witty. And the stepmom is talking to the daughter and she's like, when you leave the house, I'm going to get Weimaraners. And the daughter's like, Whoa, dream big. Anyway, one of my favorites, sorry, it's a family favorite. Anyway, Jessie, you are a delight and an inspiration. Thank you. I hope that several people who've been able to listen to this, take that moment, take that challenge. Bye. take a few hours, if not, holy cow, two weeks. Um, And dream big. Everybody has the right to dream big and I think, and even like the, not just right, but I think capacity as well as, well, capacity within themselves, but like capacity to within like their world context that you can, you can not only dream big, but you can dream big. work towards those dreams and make them reality.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah. Yeah.

KC Brothers:

Yeah.

Jessie Williams:

Yeah. You literally can do anything you want to do.

KC Brothers:

Yeah.

Jessie Williams:

Okay.

KC Brothers:

There you go. That's the end of the podcast. Thanks, Jesse.

Jessie Williams:

All right. Thank you. It was nice doing this.