Practice Success Podcast

Rusty Fullings Journey - From Burnout to Balance

• Canopy • Season 3 • Episode 2

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Rusty Fulling shares his journey of going from burnout to building a thriving virtual accounting firm. He highlights the importance of intentional leadership, creating a strong team culture, and aligning with ideal clients.

KC Brothers:

Welcome to another episode of Canopy Pras Whoa, can't talk today. Canopy Practice Success. Say that five times fast. I'm here with Rusty Folling. Hi, Rusty.

Rusty Fulling:

Hey, good to see you, Casey. I'm glad you didn't have me say that because you did a much better job than I would have.

KC Brothers:

Oh, well, I say it, who knows how many times and that's the first time I feel like I've actually stumbled. There

Rusty Fulling:

you go. There you go.

KC Brothers:

Anyway, Rusty, give a quick intro of yourself before we hop into, um, the exciting topic today.

Rusty Fulling:

There, yes, yes. Hey, Rusty Fuling, uh, based out of the Kansas City area. Uh, I started to practice fooling management and accounting back in 2000. So coming up on 25 years and, uh, we focus on really that fractional CFO piece for clients around the country and, uh, just really coming along with business owners, uh, to help them get clarity. Grow their profits and gain peace of mind.

KC Brothers:

I love it. Say that one more time. Cause that is your, your vision statement. Yeah,

Rusty Fulling:

exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's get clarity, grow profits and gain peace of mind. And it's funny, Casey, on that. We, we probably weren't the instigators of that, but those are the things that we kept hearing from clients. Hey, I have clarity now. Uh, our, our profits are growing. Yeah. I can sleep at night. And so sometimes when you're working on those mission statements. Sometimes it's your clients that will tell you those. And so be sure and, you know, listen, uh, for that input instead of putting together some big paragraph, you know, what our mission is.

KC Brothers:

Oh, I love that. Um, well, speaking of, right, so you've gone through an evolution within your firm. Give a little background on, you've been in business for about 25 years now. You've, you've seen a lot. Let's maybe talk about like maybe your first five years in your career and, and move forward until we get to. Today's larger topic and we'll tease it for the audiences. Managing culture in a virtual environment. Hot

Rusty Fulling:

topic. Yes. Yes. Well, a lot of therapy those first five years. Uh, we, uh, I came from a traditional CPA firm and, and, um, you know, the, the traditional firms, uh, you know, 60, 70, 80 hours a week, uh, if you're, if you're lucky. Uh, and, and I tell you, I was just burned out, Casey. I, I, Literally ended up in the hospital. Uh, just, just my body was shutting down because of just so much stress. And, um, I remember, um, sitting down with a coworker and they said, I can't believe you haven't started your own business. And it was just the belief in a, in a, from a friend. Who just gave that affirmation. And so, so sure enough, April, April 1, 2000 launched the business with three little clients. Uh, and what's fun is one of those little clients are one of our biggest clients today. And, uh, but it was just that slow growth, uh, literally for the first 10, 10 years, uh, our goal. And, and I know you've done some marketing and things don't get too excited about this. Our goal was to add one new client a year. One new client a year. So, so you're like, Oh my goodness. But realism is

KC Brothers:

a thing. Realism. I mean, it's so good. You know, and if you exceed, that's

Rusty Fulling:

right. If you're still alive, but what's really neat about that model that I've really grown to appreciate, um, and, and we've upped the number since then, but, but we've really gone deep with those clients. And when I talk about that client that we started with, that's still a, well, a growing client today. It's that going deep and, and sometimes when you go deep, you don't have to go as wide and you really get to, to make a difference with those clients. And so, so that's been our model since day one, but yeah, definitely a lot, a lot of rice and beans to begin with a lot, a lot of lean times, uh, uh, but just, I think just that consistency, just, just staying with that vision or that mission, you know, was, was kind of, uh, that was, that's really what kept us going.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. I mean, so by nature of going from three clients to, I mean, do you want it? Yeah, we're probably,

Rusty Fulling:

probably 60 clients. Yeah, probably 60 clients today. And, and, and so again, we're not, uh, and then we're not a traditional tax firm. So we're again, just doing more of that client advisory services, but, uh, you know, our, our growth goals these days will be like 15 to 20 a year. And so almost more one a month, one to two a month versus, you know, Versus one a year. And so try to get a little more, uh, realistic around, around growth in that area.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. So you've seen a lot of change going from, like we said, three to 60 clients. Um, what have been some of your, maybe we start with worst executed changes and they can be anything to some of the best changes you've made.

Rusty Fulling:

Yeah. One of our, um, still painful changes, uh, that, that we have made because of this, we brought on the biggest client we'd ever brought on probably year seven or eight, literally doubled our business overnight. And it was just exciting. And, and, you know, we're cruising shopping for a new vehicle, you know, all those, you know, all those kinds of things within six months, Casey, we lost that client. We had never lost a client for any kind of service issue. And we lost this massive client. And I mean, Oh, you talk about just the wind, you know, getting kicked out of you there. And part of that was that client was way out of our league. It was way too big. And, and so when you talk about best practices, what lessons learned, where have you pivoted or made those changes, identifying our ideal client. And so just, yes, taking some time to go back to the, the proverbial whiteboard and just saying, who do we serve well? Who do we like to work with? And it was interesting in that exercise. A lot of the attributes were around the leader attributes, high integrity, well respected, seize value and outsourcing, those type of things. And so even today, you know, my goodness, 10, 15 years later, we still use those attributes. as a checklist before we even look at the business, uh, the size of business. And, and so the leader is first, and then we typically look for, you know, 1 to 50 employees, probably 1 to 20 million in revenue kind of, kind of companies. Um, but that, that was a, uh, clarity moment maybe for us that, oh, just made such a difference.

KC Brothers:

Man, I read a book years ago, if you haven't read it, it's a good read, called Essentialism.

Rusty Fulling:

Yes. Uh, yeah. McAllen. McAllen. Yes. Yes.

KC Brothers:

Yeah.

Rusty Fulling:

Yeah.

KC Brothers:

Um, and he, the, the thing that I was left with and I'm, I mean, this is probably a decade or more that I've read it now.

Rusty Fulling:

Yeah.

KC Brothers:

Um, if it's that old man, I'm going to laugh if it was only written nine years ago.

Rusty Fulling:

There you go. There you go.

KC Brothers:

Um, It's just the idea that if you, you really can't say yes to everything, but what you're saying yes to, you are saying no to other things. And I think that is such an important concept applied in this instance, right? To clients and who you're engaging with in business, because. You might see things and, or, you know, early on, it might be scary to say no, or you might have a few years under your belt, like this situation. And you see someone and you're like, Ooh, shiny dollar signs or whatever. And you want to say yes, but reminding yourself. And if you haven't, if you can't remind yourself, creating these, um, characteristics, this standard checklist sort of thing of like, What your ideal client profile or your ICP. This is something I really like to talk about because I think it's so important in business in general.

Rusty Fulling:

Yes. Um,

KC Brothers:

is makes it easier for you to say no appropriately.

Rusty Fulling:

Absolutely. And we, we actually developed a couple of personas that we, we call bio Bob and bio Beth and, and bio Bob and bio Beth are kind of our, you know, here's who our ideal client is. The other thing, Casey, I think that's been so helpful is, uh, Is there was a book called The Pumpkin Plan by Mike Michalowicz and the Pumpkin Plan talked about sometimes you'll, you'll have these clients, these ideal clients that you really want to focus on, but then you have a lot of. Little, uh, clients that are just taking your energy and, and they're just not the right clients and they just suck the life out of the, the big pumpkins, the ones that you really want to focus on. And sometimes you need to, you need to, you need to prune sometimes those, those clients that are taking up, up the time. So I remember we, we'd read this book as a, as a group and, and our first pruning, uh, was a six figure year client for us. So And I thought, Oh my goodness. You know, this is, this is a, you know, a hundred plus thousand dollar a year client, and we're going to prune this client. And I, and the manager on that client was just going, uh, are we sure? Are we sure? Well, in that pumpkin plan, it has some great models as far as. You know, what things are, you know, do they pay on time? Uh, what's the UG factor? Oh, when Casey calls, do we go, Oh, it's Casey again, you know, or, yeah. And so it, and it was interesting going through that and you could easily identify, ah, they've either grown into a non ideal client or maybe they weren't wanting to begin with, but we went ahead and brought them on. So now we actually do that on a, on an annual basis. And so that, you know, the reason we don't have multiple clients that are just chaotic, uh, is we say, you know what? Let's work with the ones that, that we can, we can work well with best and we're going to serve best.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. I like that. The nice thing about that too is, you know, you're not just keeping, um, up with like your own personal standards, well, but actually by doing that, you're also communicating something to your employees, which keeps morale high and in a day and age where talent is hard to come by, that goes a long way with your talent.

Rusty Fulling:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. They know what to expect. They know, you know, they're not going to be. Uh, taking advantage of, or, or, you know, uh, talk down to, or, you know, and so absolutely that, that has been a big, big factor there.

KC Brothers:

Yeah, or even empowers them to come to you and say, hey, I think we've reached a point, even if it's not that annual review, but they already know. Because it's something that's been established within the business as part of your identity.

Rusty Fulling:

Yep. That's right. Yeah. That's a, that's a, that's a huge, uh, I'd say advantage. And, and even when we're looking at new clients, you know, they already know who's going to be a good fit upfront. So that, that has been helpful.

KC Brothers:

Yeah, that's awesome. Um, okay. So we talked about some of these changes that, you know, kind of like a, Hey, learn from my mistake. Don't make the mistake yourself. What on the opposite end of the spectrum, what have been, um, one or two of the best changes you've made? The

Rusty Fulling:

best changes. Oh my goodness. What I would say one, uh, I can think of early on and, and another, and I'll mention as well, but, um, learning to tell the story of the numbers and not just present the numbers, uh, I remember working with a large physician group years ago and, and, uh, We had this 20 page financial report that would put anybody to sleep. I mean, it was, it was horrible. And you know, you'd see the eyes glazing over until page 13, 13 was the bonus page. Hey, what am I getting as a bonus? You know, why are we spending all this time on pages one through 12 when they're just, they just want to see the bonus page. And so sometimes it's. It's telling the story. Here's what pages 1 through 12 is really telling us. Let's look at 13. That's, you know, that's, that's the KPIs you guys want to be looking at. And so I think that's part of it is just dis, dis, you know, discerning. We often talk about being a CFO is like being a GPS and, and helping guide where they're heading. as opposed to an old map where you're going, ah, this road, it must be closed, you know, and so, uh, and, and so it's, it's, I think that's been helpful. The other thing is, uh, when COVID hit, we were a brick and mortar firm and we sent everyone home and, um, and just, Seeing how well the team did in that, in that, in that time, uh, we just never invited anybody back to the office. And so we, we ended up going totally virtual and it was, uh, one of those, you know, you kind of get pushed out of the nest and you're going, Hey, we're flying well. And why, why, why go back and do something, you know, just, just because.

KC Brothers:

Tell me more about this. Cause this is where, again, we kind of teased that we wanted to spend most of the time. Few questions then that I feel like I hear often come up, not just in accounting, but.

Rusty Fulling:

How do

KC Brothers:

you know they're not just playing beach volleyball? I don't know. Um, how do you maintain culture? How do you feel close to each other? How do you communicate? Um, how long, I mean, did you get rid of the brick and mortar? You know, all of these questions that are really talked about right now.

Rusty Fulling:

Yeah, I, I remember prior to, to COVID, I was asking all those, what if they're doing laundry during the day and then they're not getting their work done. I think that's crazy. Uh, you know, that'd just be horrible. And, uh, it's so fun. Uh, I think these days, the other thing that I, I'd always get all amped up about is if you had a kid walking in the background while you're having a meeting or a dog or a cat, and you're just going, Oh, this is not professional. And, and you know, what's really cool. Casey is. People are inviting us into their homes now and, and boy, what, you know, uh, well, we use the word intimacy, uh, there's just a more intimate connection because, I mean, my goodness, you know, you, I'm inviting you into my space and, you know, for this work environment. So I think sometimes we can get wrapped up on if, if you're worried about them doing laundry and you're worried about them playing video games. Maybe it's the higher hiring process that's wrong and not the, not the environment that's wrong, not the culture that's wrong. And so, so I would say definitely spending more time on that culture development and yeah, we can talk, we can unfold that a little bit more. But we, um, yeah, we were actually in a beautiful facility before, before COVID hit. And, um, Uh, it was an incubator facility where there were new companies coming all the time. And so it was a great feeder for our business. Um, and so, yeah, when we send everybody home, that was a, that was a concern. You know, how do we, how do we maintain this? And we just found other ways to connect with folks. But, but, um, mental health was a big deal during that time as far as, you know, isolation. And how do you, how do you, how do you work on that? So, um, One of the quick things we did right off the bat was we establish a buddy system, or we just, uh, you know, Casey, you connect with Rusty and Hey, just check in each day, how are things going? And, and so that was more on a personal level. And then throughout the day, there's going to be interactions throughout

KC Brothers:

your firm.

Rusty Fulling:

Uh, we have 18, 18.

KC Brothers:

Okay. Okay.

Rusty Fulling:

So, and, and, and so that, that was been helpful. And then our, uh, Tuesday morning staff meetings, it's an all play. So everybody's joining that. We started doing a lot more leadership and culture teaching during those staff meetings and even breakout sessions for discussion groups and those kind of things. And so. It's amazing. Um, doing some of those, uh, just being more intentional about teaching around leadership. Then we bring everybody into Kansas City once a year, uh, for a big celebration time, uh, in, in some strategic planning and some serving time. And that is like an, a high school reunion, getting everybody together. It is so much fun.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. We're, we're located. Yeah. So,

Rusty Fulling:

so we're in about, I think we're in about seven states right

KC Brothers:

now.

Rusty Fulling:

And, um, one of our team members, when we went totally virtual, sold their home and lived in an Airbnb for 24 months all over the world. And so, you know, just the, if you think about, Just the ability to do that. That was a dream that their, their family had had. And boy, you can, it just, you know, if you're not so hung up with them being chained to the desk and, and, you know, right there, yeah, we, we've gotten a lot. I'll say we've amped up our team member, um, quality maybe would be a good word. Just because of those kinds of things, being able to provide some of that flexibility,

KC Brothers:

you know, being someone who does have a hybrid work environment. Um, I would never go back to a job where they asked me to be 100 percent in office. I'm a young mom.

Rusty Fulling:

Yes. Yes. I

KC Brothers:

love the flexibility it affords me. I love, um, that I can not commute and instead, you know, adjust my day accordingly, either hop on a little earlier or get on my bike and drop my kindergartner off. Um, it's those affordances and those, I feel like to remote work, what it does is, um, it exposes to your point about like being on a zoom and seeing kids in the background or whatever it might be, exposes us to each other's humanity. Yes,

Rusty Fulling:

yes, yes, yes.

KC Brothers:

And, and when we, when we feel we're seen more that way, and when we see others that way, I feel like we have a deeper, Connection, a deep, deeper sense of loyalty, even in some sense. I don't think we all need to give loyalty to our employers per se, but to each other as humans. And to think that like the, this employees, um, you empower this employee to fulfill An awesome dream and how much more are they willing to put in the, not just time, but good effort. Right. And producing quality work for the firm.

Rusty Fulling:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It's so much fun. Uh, we, one of the things that we've found helpful is during our staff meetings is do shout outs when we first start out, you know, and you've probably seen that before. Hey, Casey did this great job on this project or, um, but in, but also weekly wins. And, and the weekly wins is really an all play, you know, Hey, what was something good that happened this week? And, and it, and then the last thing I'll mention on this is, is, um, each pay period, so we have our team members submit their time and so forth for, for billing and different things. But they'll send me a note as part of our payroll system that again, what was their personal high of the period of the pay period and what was their personal low, and it could be. You know, it could be, Hey, I had this great meet with this client or, Hey, my kid just hit the winning, uh, you know, home run at the baseball game, or it could be, well, we just suffered a really tough loss in our family. And, and what the, again, you talk about humanity, you know, those help me stay connected to the team. And it also gives me the opportunity to reach out to the team, especially on those. Those sensitive things or, or even celebrate. Uh, and so I think that, you know, how can we incorporate humanity into the, you know, the number crunching environment and those have been helpful for our team.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. Um, so yeah, any of those, um, the things that you've done, you mentioned a few, um, being intentional, right? Uh, leadership meetings, uh, the buddy system.

Yeah. Um,

KC Brothers:

I'd love, uh, an example of how. You feel like those activities, um, in a remote environment has really benefited the productivity

Rusty Fulling:

of your mind. Well, and, and I will say, you know, one of the questions, uh, I think you and I talked about even before we were coming on board, but, but how do you know people are working? And, and, uh, you know, I think even in a, in a brick and mortar building, I think you need to make work visible. Um, you know, and just because you can see somebody sitting down the hall, that doesn't necessarily mean they're not, you know, playing video games, you know, and so, um, tools like canopy, which is workflow management system, you know, I think those are so helpful because we can easily get on and see what projects are outstanding and we use. That type of, that type of system to, to, you know, when we meet individual with each team member to, Hey, how are we doing? You know, this, this week on this client and, and we can look at those things. So I think that that's part of that exercise. Um, but one of the comments we've gotten from multiple team members, new team members that have come on board over the last four years is they say, I feel closer to my team here than I ever did when I worked in an office space. And so you, well, and it goes back to, I'll say kind of the three eyes is what we talk about. Invest in your team weekly. And that's the shout outs, the culture lessons. So we bring in every week a speaker from the outside on video to, to teach about, um, uh, I'm trying to think what we're talking about this week. Uh, it could be communication, you know, how to be, how to, how to be a better communicator. Um, it could be how to, Oh, what's your personal. Uh, mission. And so, you know, if you think about it, if you're, if you're then breaking into small groups and talking about that, you know, my personal purpose is, you know, for me, it was encourage, guide, equip, serve. And listen. Okay. And so those are kind of my five. If I can do those throughout the day. Well, that's a good day. And so each of our team members came up with some, some of their own. But if you think about that, I mean, we're not talking about balance sheets and reconciliations and some of those kinds of things. In that section, yes, we are later in the week, but, but we're just giving again, that humanity that, Hey, how are things going kind of stuff. So that's made a world of difference, Casey. I, I, and, and, you know, I sure don't get all the credit for that because we've got a great team that, you know, has brought ideas to the table and we've seen other companies that, that do similar things as well.

KC Brothers:

Yeah, no, I love it. I think again, it's just the being seen as a human and then allowing other people to show up as a human. Like I get to see my boss as a human, as well as my coworkers. It just adds something that may not, I don't feel like it's always been there in a work environment, depending on the. The industry and stuff throughout the last, you know, a hundred years. I think it is something that we're finding to be more unique in this post COVID era, especially if people are choosing to embrace remote or hybrid work.

Rusty Fulling:

Yes. Yes. Yeah. We love it. Um, the, one of the things too, we've really started pushing as more core values. And, and our core values can be a very good recruiting tool, but, but you have to live those core values too. And so that's been helpful to, to go through those. And we even evaluate on a quarterly basis, the team members actually do self evaluation. How am I doing on each of these values? And so that can be helpful that way you're, you're, you have a good foundation in what you're building the company from.

KC Brothers:

I mean, it sounds like, so a phrase, I feel like I've said this on the podcast multiple times, um, but something I really ascribe to is the sentiment of slowing down to speed up.

Rusty Fulling:

Yeah.

KC Brothers:

And this, this seems like one of those areas where it's like, okay, if you slow down and take the time to think of core values, um, mission statements and in the right way. I, ICPs, you know, your ideal client profile, um, enables you to go faster. And it seems like it might be maybe, I think it's hard for any business owner, to be honest, aside, outside of accounting, inside of accounting. Um, but take a think week maybe, you know, and, and work on these things because it will only better your business.

Rusty Fulling:

Yes. Uh, we kind of have five lessons. Uh, somebody asking, Hey, what, what are some lessons you've learned? One is being intentional. It, you know, mission, vision, values that, that is so big. Um, and number two would be, be patient. You look at somebody who's been in business 25 years ago. Oh, I wish I could be, I want to be them. I want to be, and you're just starting out. Boy, it hasn't always been easy. And so be patient, uh, be a difference maker. If it's all about you, it's going to be short lived, but boy, if you can make a difference in others and clients and team members, that's going to be, that's going to be big and number four, be a, be a lifelong learner. So continue to learn, you know, don't, don't get complacent in that. And the last one is be still take time to just be still and take time. What'd you just talk about? Maybe a week, maybe it's, maybe it's just, you know, a day, something to just, you know, take some time to, to celebrate where you've been. Focus on where you're heading and, and, and maybe it's bringing in a coach or a mentor in some of those times too.

KC Brothers:

Man, how did you survive before you opened your firm and found all of these things? I feel like you're, you're just laying it out so clearly. Um, and I hope, um, other people are able to hear this and take advantage of it. Those that, you know, might be in the thick of, Those long, um, work weeks or the Yes. In the, you know, the threshold of deciding whether or not they wanna start their firm or maybe they just started their firm and they're drowning. But this perspective that you're offering, I think is just so beautiful.

Rusty Fulling:

Yeah. I, I, and I think it's the things that I always look for, and I, I may have mentioned it earlier, but you know, the, the kind of the three Cs, the coach, the cheerleader in the community. And if you don't have those three, that can, that can really be lonely. And, you know, cause if I don't have somebody to go to when I'm struggling on, how do I lead well, uh, or somebody to challenge you, maybe you're not leading well and here, I need to maybe some accountability, but that coach cheerleader, somebody to cheer you on. Those can be so, so vital. So yeah, I'd, I'd encourage anybody that's starting out or trying to figure out, do I even keep this thing going? Or how do I grow from here? Yeah, those would be, those would be some three things that maybe look at investing in.

KC Brothers:

Well, more than three things. You've dropped like 20 things. Great gems to hold on to. Okay. Last question. If you came across someone who is really skeptical of the Going virtual or even hybrid, what would be your pitch? Why would you say, you know what, if you went, you'd be more productive. What, what, what would you say to

Rusty Fulling:

them? Yeah, I, I think there's, there's a, somebody was talking about imitation or inspiration. I think there's things that we've talked about today that hopefully can be inspiring. And, and maybe it's not, you don't have to, you don't have to go virtual to do everything that we've talked about. Um, I would be cautious to say, yeah, go virtual and you can do it just like this. Um, So if, you know, if you're struggling with going virtual, maybe, maybe you shouldn't do it. Uh, so I want to be, I want to be realistic there. Um, we've just found for, for our model, it's worked well. Uh, we're recruiting right now for our next fractional CFO. So if you want to

KC Brothers:

work fully virtual. Yeah, yeah,

Rusty Fulling:

please, uh, yeah, virtual, uh, fractional CFO. Hey, the cool thing, Casey, is, is guess where our workforce is. Anywhere in the US, you know, and so, so we're not, you know, stuck just in this one little area. And so that's been so much fun is, is bringing in great talent from all over. So, um, that that's one plug though, as far as a, Hey, what's a benefit. You don't, you don't have a limited workforce. Uh, and, and I think putting in tools. Uh, don't just, you know, leave people on islands. Make sure you're intentional about bringing, building a community. Uh, having people say, wow, I feel closer to my team members here than I ever did in person. Those are the things that I would encourage you to strive for. If you are looking at a virtual model, does that make sense?

KC Brothers:

Yeah, well, and to your, that point to it, we didn't call this out explicitly, but for some reason my brain is like, Casey, call this out. Um, it's just that, okay, we're saving dollars, actual money, on not having a brick and mortar. Um, but remind yourself that not just to save that money, but to squirrel it away for things like bringing the whole team together.

Rusty Fulling:

Absolutely love it. Thanks for calling it out because so many people, oh, you've saved so much money and I'm guessing we've probably spent more, honestly. Casey, we're preparing right now. I don't know when this, this will drop, but we're preparing right now for our virtual Christmas party. And our parties are second to none, even in a virtual world. And you're going, how do you do that? We have an incredible team that puts those on. And, and so it's so much fun to see what you can do in this environment that, you know, four or five years ago, I'd be going. That's, you know, you know, that, that's not even going to work. So anyway, it, it, those, you can definitely do it. And, and there's so many tools out there these days that make it lots of

KC Brothers:

fun. Don't, don't do it to save money. Don't do it if you feel forced to do it, but that there, there are great benefits to it, especially if you feel like it will serve your business model, you, your firm members. Yes.

Rusty Fulling:

Yep. Okay. Absolutely. Absolutely.

KC Brothers:

Well, thanks so much for your time today, Rusty.

Rusty Fulling:

You bet. Hey, it's good to see you. We'll talk to you soon.