Practice Success Podcast

The Future of Hiring with Kristy Busija

• Canopy • Season 3 • Episode 4

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In this episode of the Practice Success Podcast, executive coach and talent management consultant Kristy Busija shares insights on modern hiring strategies and how companies can adapt to today’s evolving workforce. From leveraging social media in recruitment to embracing fractional work Kristy offers advice for firms struggling with talent shortages. 

Nicole McMillan:

Hi, I'm Nicole McMillan, Canopy Senior Vice President of People, and your guest host on today's episode of Practice Success Podcast. Joining me today is Executive Coach and Talent Management Consultant, Christy Boussia. Oh goodness, I didn't say that right. Busea, there we go. Christy Busea. And we'll be discussing how to address the accounting industry's talent shortages, making your hiring practices better and what candidates are maybe not telling you, but you probably ought to know. Christy, thank you so much for being here. We're happy to have you here.

Kristy Busija:

Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.

Nicole McMillan:

So, you may not be aware of this, Christy, but, um, in the accounting profession, we're actually seeing a massive talent shortage. More people are retiring, leaving the profession altogether and choosing other careers than are actually coming in. Um, and with our audience being largely accounting professionals, do you have any thoughts on dealing with a talent shortage generally, regardless of the industry?

Kristy Busija:

Oh, yeah. Um, we see this all the time. Um, it's so one thing. So overall, I would say is that we have to, we really just have to start looking at things from higher of a hiring perspective with a fresh set of eyes. What worked for us 20 years ago is 100 percent not going to work for us anymore. So the, the talent coming into the workforce is, um, they are, they're taught different things. They're trained different ways. They're different expectations. So that means we as organizations have to evolve in how we find them, how we attract them, how we retain them. And we have to change a little so that we can embrace them and bring them in.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah. That's a really great perspective. Um, and inside the accounting industry, we see a lot of people who have run their practice for, you know, 20 plus years. And so, um, they've probably been around for a long time and may be pretty comfortable with what we saw in the workplace 20, 10 years ago. Um, but we're just seeing a completely different generation entering the workforce now. And what they want is different. So, um, yeah, well, let's talk for a minute about Starting that search. Let's say someone is looking for some candidates. They want to get, get a few roles filled. Where would you direct them to start looking for these candidates, especially, you know, maybe some of these younger, younger generations? Where do we find them?

Kristy Busija:

Well, we have to start hanging out where they're hanging out, and that is, and that is not in a newspaper, and that is not, and, and I, I hate to say it's not even, uh, most of the time on LinkedIn, it's places like Instagram, Facebook, Facebook, TikTok, um, any place where they are, where they're getting their information, they're posting, they're, they're learning, where they're growing, that's where we have to find them.

Nicole McMillan:

Okay. Yeah, that's really helpful. Um, and I think even in the last three to five years we've seen a pretty big evolution in where those professional job candidates are living. Do you have any suggestions for when, you know, when these employers are out there looking what they can do on their side in terms of how they present themselves to maybe Catch the eye of some of those candidates and stand out a little bit.

Kristy Busija:

Um, well, the things that we have seen working really well is that, um, uh, it's, it's demonstrating that, that your culture is different. So you have to, you can't just, we can no longer just tell people we're different. You can't just say, we have a fantastic culture to work. We're different. You have to really show it. So whether that is, um, you know, posting a video or having your employees post videos of how, of how they love to work there, um, or even your client testimonials of how they enjoy working with, with their accountants and with the people there that actually speaks more volumes now than ever before. So you want to try to. Grab them and show them, not just tell them anymore.

Nicole McMillan:

That's great. Um, and I feel like employers are now kind of in glass houses, right? There's no hiding, you know, what, what they are is out there. And there's not, you know, there's not a lot of buffer between what a normal. inside of a company or a firm. And I mean, people talk about their work experiences pretty openly on forums like Glassdoor and Reddit. Uh, I don't know if you have any thoughts about that.

Kristy Busija:

Yeah, we actually, one of our clients right now we're working with because they, they, um, we're looking at their Glassdoor ratings compared to their competitors and they're not looking so great. And so we're, we're, we're, we're talking to them about how in the world can you get more information about The great company and the great culture and the things you're doing. Cause I see it. You need the, everybody else needs to see it, but it's not reflective of what's out there because that is the first place candidates are going to, they're told to go to glass door, to read it, to reach out to people on LinkedIn and ask if they can pick their brain about what it's like to work there, they're told to go get information and they are getting it, they are definitely getting it. So give them more. Of the goods and more. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole McMillan:

And it seems like what goes out there tends to be, you know, a really disgruntled or maybe grumpy person a lot of the time.

Kristy Busija:

Yeah.

Nicole McMillan:

And so maybe proactively asking people who work in your company who, you know, have been there and are happy and have great things to say to get on Glassdoor and leave a review. Um, could that be helpful?

Kristy Busija:

Absolutely. Absolutely. You want to, you want to start encouraging more of, um, with sharing the positive, not just sharing the negative. I mean, our brains are wired to focus on the negative and think about the negative. I mean, it's, it's psychology 101 back in the day. If we didn't, if we didn't actually watch our environment, we would die. Sabre toothed tiger will come get us. Our brains are not wired to look for the positive, so we need to start anchoring it on more of the good things that are happening, and what, and what the company is doing. Um, everything from treating their employees, to social impact, to community impact, to, um, everything that's happening out there, start posting about it.

Nicole McMillan:

That's so great. I love that. Um, and I think it's really interesting as well. Every company is a little different. They have a unique culture. They want a certain kind of employee. And I think it's also an opportunity for them to say. And this is how we work. This is what our culture is like, and you should consider that and make sure it's a good fit for the candidate just as much as making sure that the candidate is a good fit for the company so that if they have a really specific perspective about what they want from their work experience, they don't show up and are met with a culture that just doesn't work for them. It gives this a really great opportunity for them to evaluate and opt out if they're like, Hey, it's, you know, small team. You get to wear lots of hats, learn lots of things, but you know, it means it can be a little intense at times. That may not be the right fit for every candidate, but it might be a really great fit for some of the candidates.

Kristy Busija:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would say, um, companies need to be more transparent and, um, I would say confident in owning what their culture is and what their culture isn't because not every culture is going to be somebody's cup of tea and that's okay. You will attract your right fit candidate and right fit employee. And that's, that's a beautiful thing when you get that match right. But what I see a lot of and used to see a lot of is talking about what the culture is, but it is not that at all, at all. So just be real about what your expectations are and you will find the right candidate.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah, I love that, um, bringing in the wrong, the wrong person and having to make a change. It's very expensive. It takes a ton of time out of the organization, especially when a company is already pretty strapped for talent. And so sometimes it's better to go a little slower and get to the right person than make a quick hire. That's maybe not a good fit for the work environment and have to deal with that months down the road.

Kristy Busija:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And we know, we all know being on both sides of the table that it's stressful to interview candidates and it's stressful to be interviewed. And so the more open and transparent we can all get about that on both sides of the fence, then we can, then we can short circuit some of that process and make sure that we're getting it right and not doing a dance that later we have to undo. Absolutely. Um,

Nicole McMillan:

Are you seeing anything in the world of kind of job descriptions that talk about that or anything that's like positioning maybe company website or a LinkedIn profile if the if the company doesn't have a big employer page for their website? What are you seeing that helps articulate? What the company is and what the role will be like.

Kristy Busija:

Oh, we're seeing, well, we're, um, progressive companies are starting to get, um, starting to use, um, more like day in the life of here's what it's like to work here. Here's what your day is like, and it's. It's either normal or not normal, or it's all of the above, or what, um, or seeing, you know, that working from home or working from wherever the remote option, but actually physically seeing what that day is. So that people understand more about what are the expectations. Oh wait, I can, I can work remotely or I can't work remotely. What are, what, where am I going to be? What am I going to be doing all the time? Um, we are starting to see less of the generalities and job descriptions of this is our great, we're a great place to work. But they're getting very detailed in why they're a great place to work. So it's, it's starting with the why we were not just because we have a great office environment or flexible work hours or all the, all the goodies that we give or great 401k, it's all the intangibles that we're all relating to. So it's, you know, we value the relationship with, you know, with, with you, your, you and your boss, we have a great development program. We're seeing more of that embedded in the job description so that people see that they could have a future and can grow. And we're also starting to see a little bit more of, um, um, a little bit around like, and it's, it's very unique. But I've seen where we know that you're, this may not be your final home, but we are happy to have you on this part of your journey.

Nicole McMillan:

I love that. That's great. Yeah. We don't see people stay at companies for 20 years anymore. Um, and I would imagine that that's probably not what a candidate might be looking for either. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe that's a great place for us to pivot. I would love to hear some of your insights. Um, on what candidates might be thinking, and they're not telling employers, but, but these employers should know. Absolutely.

Kristy Busija:

Well, they're telling me, so I will tell you. Absolutely. Give you the inside scoop. Um, they're wanting, they are wanting, um, flexibility. So. And I'm not, I'm not just talking flexibility in terms of, I want, you know, I, I want to be able to log off at a certain time and never work. They do want to work. They are very hardworking individuals, but they want flexibility, meaning that I could, um, if I, if I need to go to a doctor's appointment, I'm not asking permission. I'm just do, I'm scheduling it as part of my work. Um, if I want to work from the beach one day, I can do that. And it's not going to be seen as a negative thing. Um, if, you know, I. You know, it's actually, they're asking for exactly what's something I have in my email signature that my working hours are not necessarily yours, so don't feel free to respond if these are not during your working hours that they're, they're, they're wanting companies to be respectful or mindful of that. You may actually be more productive at a different time of day and how do you, how can you accommodate that? Um, and the big thing that we are really seeing that they're really talking about is I really want to be myself. How the heck can I be myself in this environment? And are you going to, are you really, really going to embrace me? Are you going to put me in a box when I get there? And that they really want to know that from you and they really want to know that you've that you've actually created that culture environment where that everybody around me is going to embrace me and support me as well.

Nicole McMillan:

That is really interesting to hear. Um, I would imagine that we're seeing this, this theme a little more strongly with. Some of our younger generation specifically that that Gen Z's those who are graduating from college and entering the workforce, they want that flexibility. They want to be able to show up and be who they are and and be able to be accepted and fill that inclusion in the work environment.

Kristy Busija:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it comes from, Nicole, it comes from, if you look at the way that we grew up and what was around us in our environment, it's totally different. They grew up in social media. They grew up with, with, with embracing people for who they are, for understanding that, that, that, you know, you're beautiful the way you're created and just be you, right? Just be you. And. So we, you know, that's that they're expecting it because that's all that they know or what they've been. They've been, you know, I mean, I was even chatting with a colleague the other day that, um, the way that we even that they're learning is different. So they learn, you know, I walked into a great chance to work with, um, with our local elementary school, you know, I grew up individual seats. Raise your hand. They grow up in elementary and literally in kindergarten, sitting at table teams, working in table groups, working in teams. So the way that they think is totally different than the way we think because of what the environment we grew up in. So everything's on display for them because they're, they're used to it. So how do we help them show up authentically? In that work environment and embrace that and how do we change so that we can also start to show up a little bit more authentically ourselves.

Nicole McMillan:

I love that. That's so great. Um, so when we have these candidates and they're coming into our company and we're onboarding them, um, is there anything that we can do as an employer to help them? Understand the expectations and for us to understand what they need to be uniquely them.

Kristy Busija:

Absolutely. Um, and this one's gonna, it's gonna sound very cliche and it's an old school concept. It's communication, communication, communication, right? So onboarding is. It's um, and making it a two way street on that communication channel. So um, um, being very clear in what the expectations are, but truly asking for that feedback in return of, um, tell me a little bit about you, your style, what you, what, you know, how do you thrive? What environments do you thrive in? Um, what help do you need? Um, do you, you know, uh, how do you prefer to be communicated with? Um, we, so in our, you know, with our team, we actually do a couple different assessments so that we can understand how we're all wired. We share them across the board so that we understand how best to communicate with each other. And then we can create strategies for how we put things in place so that we're all successful. I really strongly recommend doing that. And then when you're walking through expectations doing those check ins to say, um, help me, you know, can you help me walk? Can you help me to understand what you need to feel supported as you're learning and growing? Because we don't want you to feel like you're out there by yourself and have to, you're in the deep end and you're, you don't have your floaties and you're, and you're going to sink or swim. We want you to be successful. So what do you need and how can we help?

Nicole McMillan:

That's really helpful. I love that. Um, one of the pieces of advice I give a lot of managers that I work with is, you know, Give them your operating manual too. So they understand where you're coming from. You know, a lot of, a lot of people we work with have families and so they might leave their work day at five, go do family things, and then maybe they jump on later at night. And so we use Slack and other messaging, messaging systems quite a bit in our workplace, and they may be jamming away at nine or 10 o'clock at night because it's what they like to do and it works for their family circumstance, but being able to tell new hires, Hey. Sometimes I get on at night in the evening and I I'm dropping messages. I never expect you to respond if it's urgent. I will text you. So just know there's no pressure. Even if it's after hours, this is just who I am and how I like to work. And I kind of get a cool burst of energy really late in the evening. Um, or. You know, whatever, whatever it is actually for that person, just kind of sharing with them like this is how I work, but I don't have any expectation attached to it can be really, really helpful and it avoids some like friction and and frustration where people feel like maybe they're being asked to grind nonstop where we're so connected as company anymore.

Kristy Busija:

Yeah. I'm glad that you're sharing that with managers, um, because, um, and that's the, and that's the trend that we're seeing is that, um, the generations coming into the workforce are looking at us at leaders and saying, if I have to be that or do that, or, or duplicate what you're doing now, I'm going to opt out. That is not my path. But if we can start communicating that no, actually it's. It's because of my style and my preferences that it's my choice and I 100 percent respect your choice that you do not need to work at 9, 10, 11. It's just when my brain is at its highest productivity level. Or five, six in the morning, it's at as high as productivity, productivity level, right?

Nicole McMillan:

Absolutely. Yeah. Do you have any other thoughts about what, what candidates might be thinking that they're not sharing with, with companies?

Kristy Busija:

Yes, I do. Um, they are usually, so nowadays we are, um, it's It's, it's no longer I hold one job and I only have one job. So candidates, typically you may, they, well, they, they may, you, they may already have a job and are looking for the second job to continue to supplement all of that. And so just understanding and knowing that this could be another gig that is happening at the same time. And so, um, that's a mind shift that we all have to make that as long as the work is getting done, the work is getting done and being clear as to it's not the number of hours in the day. It's the volume and body of the work that needs to get done and taken care of. Um, and then they are also they, um. They're interviewing with many, many places and they're pitting you against the company next to you. So, you really, really have to double down and put your best foot forward. Consider this the dating scenario where you really want to, you want to get that second date, third date, and finally a commitment. But don't, but also don't over index on, um, you know, the, um, We're amazing is awesome. And it's great. They are seeing through that and they are immediately flagging you as fake. And so, um, that I think those are some of the things that I would that they are at least they're telling me you're telling our team behind the scenes.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense and they will fact check, right? They're going 100

Kristy Busija:

percent fact check you. They are going out, they are Googling you, LinkedIn, um, checking on you or they're checking reviews, Reddit, Glassdoor, every place that they can, um, and they're looking and they're looking it up.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah. Um, I wanted to go back to a point that you made about like. When the work gets done is maybe less important than the work just getting done. I'm curious your thoughts when it comes to customer or client facing roles that do require a certain amount of. availability during normal business hours. Do you have any thoughts how employers can be flexible, but also meet the needs of their clients?

Kristy Busija:

I, I, um, this is, it's going to sound overly simplistic. I think they just need to set that expectation that these are our core hours that we need you to work during. That you have to be client facing because our clients, this is a promise that we've made or commitment we've made to our clients. Everything outside of that is the flexible areas. Um, some firms have more flexibility or the ability to, you know, but some don't. And so you want to, you want to really be very explicit about where your points of, um, points of negotiation are and where everything is just set.

Nicole McMillan:

Transparency and communication are key, right?

Kristy Busija:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah. Do you have any other thoughts about, uh, what candidates might be thinking? Anything else you wanted to share with our audience?

Kristy Busija:

Well, it's a, it's for a different generation or a different pocket for candidates to, um, that I think the audience needs to know. There's a whole group of candidates out there that perhaps aren't getting tapped into as much as they could, but they are. They're amazing workers, they are very dedicated workers, and they're, and they're pretty easy to find, and these are the, these are the, um, a lot of it are, I, I just think about the mom project or the Facebook groups. These are those who are returning back into the work that are amazing professionals. They don't want the, they don't want the grind that they had before and they just, but they just want to get back into the workforce doing the amazing work that they did. I would, I would tap into those markets. Because with all the things that are happening out there in the job market, we've had so many layoffs that have been announced, um, so many transitions. You want to really look to get and get creative where you're looking for that talent. So the next time that you see that article that this company laid off, workers. Guess what? Mine, that data, especially because you may have some great candidates that you can grab.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah. I have been surprised the amount of loyalty it generates to give somebody a chance. So somebody has taken a career break for whatever reason. They just need a step back into the workplace and the loyalty and the hustle they're willing to offer is just like. Yeah, it's incredible. And they're so grateful. Um, yeah, I wonder, um, if we ever looked into it, if we'd find like performance and output, like, does it look different for somebody who, who had to work really hard to get themselves back into the workplace and, and they're very appreciative of those opportunities. I hear a research study coming on. I think that that would

Kristy Busija:

be a

Nicole McMillan:

great one to do. It would be really interesting to see for sure. Yeah. Is there, is there any other thoughts you have on, on this topic? Or do you feel like you've been able to share the that you've heard that candidates are thinking about.

Kristy Busija:

So there's one thing that keeps coming back up and it's, it's definitely, it's more and more in the space. It's, um, the fractional work that I've rethinking that it has to be full time, a full time person that accomplishes that job. A lot of people are doing a lot of fractional work and they're, and they're piecing together multiple fractional roles. So, and that provides maximum flexibility, availability, all of that. And you're still getting the work done. So maybe rethinking or looking into do, can we break this job into, into, you know, different bite sized pieces so that we offer it to different, a whole group of people versus, um, just one.

Nicole McMillan:

That could be a really interesting way to expand the candidate pool for these accounting firms where they don't feel like they have access to enough. They can widen that candidate pool by having an opportunity for someone who isn't maybe ready for a 40 or 50 hour a week role, but would love 20 to 30 hours. Um, and there's, you know, there's some cost savings as well with not having to have all of the ancillary benefits that come with a full time employer. Or an employee and it could be, um, interesting and cost effective as well.

Kristy Busija:

And if you think about it, even, you know, even out, you know, so my accountant, she's, she's fractional. She doesn't, she doesn't do this just for us. She does more than just this. She does fractional, you know, CFO stuff. She does fractional, her firm does fractional tax stuff. Like there's all kinds of things that she does and it's fractional. And so how do you and her same with her team? Her team is not full time.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah. Um, and, you know, kind of going back to like the scheduling, if you're working, let's say, you know, 20 to 30 hours, you. Work with those clients you're working with in the hours that make sense in a normal work schedule. And then it gives them flexibility for, you know, other things they've got going on in their life. And it gives them that flexibility this generation's looking for as well.

Kristy Busija:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, um, and it also with, since we are so virtual nowadays, it allows you to broaden your, your client base. So, um, you don't have to be in the same city, the same state, the same time zone as your, as your clients. So it does give you more flexibility from that perspective.

Nicole McMillan:

Yeah, that's really helpful. Um, I think that this has been such a great discussion. There've been some really great, uh, little nuggets there that hopefully our listeners can take from making sure they are showing up where the candidates are and it's, it's not where it used to be. So figure that out and make sure that you're there and make sure that you're being transparent about who you are and the kind of people that you. I think we'll be successful in your work environment. Um. And do a little bit of thinking about what you actually really need for your work environment to be successful because we can be a lot more flexible than, than we used to be able to given technology. Um, and I, I know you talked a little bit about, um, flexibility, fractional work. Um, definitely some of those things will be really helpful too, as firms ramping up for the, the next year as well and hiring more people. Um, Yeah. This has been such a great conversation, Christy. Thank you so much for joining us. And if our listeners want to learn more about you or the work that you've been doing, where should they go?

Kristy Busija:

Absolutely. They should just check us out at nextconversationconsulting. com or, uh, nextconversationconsulting. com. Look me up on LinkedIn, Christy Buccia on LinkedIn. I think I'm the only one out there.

Nicole McMillan:

Okay, perfect. Fantastic. Thank you so much for tuning in. And that's all we have for you today. Thank

Kristy Busija:

you for having me.