Practice Success Podcast

Transforming Toxic Workplace Cultures with Brittany Malidore

• Canopy • Season 3 • Episode 5

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Brittany Malidore shares her journey of overcoming workplace toxicity and bullying in the accounting industry. Joined by KC Brothers, she discusses the hidden impact of toxic work environments and why identifying and eliminating harmful behaviors—whether from colleagues or clients—is key to long-term success.

KC Brothers:

Welcome to another episode of Canopy Practice Success. I am Casey Brothers, the host. I'm here today with Brittany Mallador. Welcome, Brittany. Hello. Hello. How

Brittany Malidore:

are you today? I'm doing well. It's a bit cloudy here in Washington, but winter is upon us.

KC Brothers:

It is. We're in the thick of it, aren't we? Um, go ahead and give an introduction of yourself to the listeners here today.

Brittany Malidore:

Yeah, no, thanks. Hi everyone. My name is Brittany Mallador, the co founder and managing partner of Ledgerly Consulting. which is a firm I launched about four years ago that does accounting tax and audit services. Um, and then separately, I have kind of my own company, which focuses on branding, uh, e learning, all things that are just not actual technical accounting. So I'm super excited to be here with you today.

KC Brothers:

Awesome. Thanks, Brittany. Um, today we, you shot over a suggested topic that took me by surprise. That I have not heard talked about by anyone else. And I'm so curious to just have this discussion. And the topic was bullying in the workplace. Um, tell us a little bit about why this is such a sensitive topic to you or, or, or timely or something you feel like needs to be talked about.

Brittany Malidore:

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, when we think about bullying, we always think about playground bullying, right? Like I was on the playground as a kid and I got like pushed by Jimmy Joe, right? And that was not nice of him. Um, over my time in accounting and particularly this year after my major accident, I really started reflecting on, you know, who I am and why I do things the way I do, or why do I feel the way that I do? Um, after my car accident, I had a moment of I feel like if I had died, that I would not have had a community there. And that was really big feelings, right? Like to say, do

KC Brothers:

we need to back up and talk about this accident?

Brittany Malidore:

No, I was just driving to pick up my daughter and in a split second I was t boned and unfortunately eight days later I woke up. I did not know how to speak. I didn't know how to walk. Um, it was pretty scary for my family. But honestly, the best thing that has happened to me and my family because I think I was on autopilot, I didn't, you know, going through life feeling the way that I was feeling. And so after the accident, I really reflected about what's most important to me, what drives me. Um, you know, I asked myself, like, what am I made for? I know what I can do. I know what I love to do, which is serve my clients and do some really cool accounting. But like, what am I here and what am I made for? And, you know, I haven't had the easiest upbringing, but part of this whole, what am I made for is I learned, like, You know, the experiences that I've had in my life and most specifically in my career have been hard and challenging as you know, a military wife, a mom of five, a very ambitious and bold individual, you know, I reflected and said, you know, I'm not really happy. I don't have the community that I want. You know, why do I feel the way that I feel about myself? And as I looked back, I learned like, yeah, I have gone through these instances of maybe toxic cultures that have created a bit of an imposter syndrome in myself. Um, it took me 10 years to like launch my own firm, took a really long time. People used to tell me in public accounting, um, you know, you're not going to make it as a mom, right? Uh, I worked at a regional firm for several years, helped launch their CAS practice. And, uh, I said, Hey, I don't believe that I need a CPA to do this type of work. I think I'm really great at it. I don't need it. Um, I've met my business development goals. I've done all this. And they literally said, sorry, you can't have this position. You can't grow within the firm if you don't have a CPA license. And I was treated differently. by people in accounting because I had that view. You know, fast forward a couple years working at big public accounting, right? You, very competitive environment if you're not there 20 hours a

KC Brothers:

day. Yeah, yeah. So all of this, these things, couple things you just mentioned, you weren't maybe totally consciously aware of until after this accident and you started reevaluating life. And then I mean, I, I can see that that makes sense in the way of like you, you become maybe a bit more self defensive because you're like, I have space to own because I made it. I'm alive. Um, where was I not holding my space and I could see that, you know, retroactively why this happened to you. So that's so interesting. So because of your accident, you started seeing what had happened to you previously and how it was wrong and what add up to an end, how all fell under this category of. Workplace bullying.

Brittany Malidore:

Yeah. It's one of the things, there's a couple things that came out of my, like self-reflection period. Okay. And this was one of them. And the reason being is after my accident, there was a question that I asked myself is, am I proud of who I am? Am I proud of the things I've done? Am I proud of the relationships that I have? Am I. You know, okay with the relationships that I don't have. And what I realized is that bullying had a personal impact on my life. I do believe in, you know, looking back that I had bullish behavior. I might have thought that it was competitiveness. I might have thought that it was just get the project done. Um, I think similarly, I've been in instances where I've been bullied. I have been hit with a door by a co worker. I've been screamed at on been times of my life whe weren't always that great were very significant time I took on a contract job, uh, right before my accident for about two, three years, and I loved it. It was really great. But I had a manager who was a bully, yelled at me on zoom, unrealistic timeline. I mean, he would come on a zoom call and I would shake and turn red. And so part of my accident kind of after what I realized is I have these experiences and they're deep wounds. And part of my going forward is to educate people on how do you create a culture and environment? That makes this a zero tolerance, that you don't embody a leadership style that condones this type of workplace. And so, you know, whether you want to call it workplace bullying or not, it's part of the big C. It's part of the big culture. So as a business owner, Um, as an employee, you have to make sure, right, that you know how to identify how to work through these instances, um, even the bystander, right? How to, when you see something that's not right, to say something. Because, again, someone could think it's competitive. That person could be going home and crying at night going like I don't know what I'm doing wrong, right? It's it's all about perspective.

KC Brothers:

I Okay, I just had a moment I mean we were even chatting before we actually hit record here and I remember now I can challenge you a little bit I was like, this is interesting that you're Um, putting this all under this umbrella term bullying and I think you even said just now, like you did in our earlier conversation, you're like, who cares what we call it, right? But I, I would push back on you on that and that this word is actually really important. And the reason why I'm actually, I had a light bulb moment while you were talking. How, how did I not realize this? I had a manager who was the biggest bully and I would have never called him that. I had trouble. working for him because he was so frightening. Um, and I remember talking to, uh, he was kind of like a dotted line manager, um, within a week or two of starting this job and him saying, no, it's just normal to always think you're going to get fired. I'm like, no, no, why, why are you normalizing this? So to your point, like the, the bully hit this dotted line manager being the bystander and not pushing back in this instance, me being the, the bullied, um, it's so funny here. I experienced it and I, and I knew I didn't want to go back to that after having had a brand new baby. I knew I didn't want to leave a brand new baby for that environment. I mean, it's been five years and I would have never called him a bully until this conversation.

Brittany Malidore:

That's the hard part about it, right? Well, um, most recently I was in South Carolina talking to an amazing room of women at the, uh, Women Who Count conference. And during my presentation, I just said, look, let's just be real, right? How many of you have been faced with A, B, C, and D? I had a whole slide of just subtle signs. And more than half of the room raised their hand. And then I started to challenge that, like Do you feel great when that happens? Do you find value when that happens? Is that making you a better person? Does that make you think highly

KC Brothers:

of that person? I think for me, at least where I extrapolated this for me, and just a quick example, I went from that company, um, to another company and then I came to Canopy. So I had a little stint in between, but I did not feel like you. I'm ambitious. I like feeling, I think most adults. Like feeling accomplished, like a challenge, like completing things, like feeling competent. And I did not feel that way reporting to this gentleman. And I, as a result, my productivity dropped, my emotional health dropped. Um, and then, you know, flash forward two years to when I'm here at Canopy. I'd only been here, not to But just to show that like the impact management and, or, I mean, he's my manager, you can be bullied by anybody. Um, but the impact this kind of toxic environment can have on someone. I'd only been here for nine months and I was recognized as one of three employees of the year.

Brittany Malidore:

It's amazing.

KC Brothers:

And it just goes to show like what a healthy work environment can do for anyone's productivity. Whether you're again, like I really do think. Most adults want to do good work, um, produce things, but, but we can so easily stifle the wonderfulness in our fellow humans if we succumb to these behaviors.

Brittany Malidore:

1, 000%. One thing that I left, um, or I really kind of preach now that came from my accident is this kind of unsilenced boldness as women. How many times when we speak up, are we told that we're aggressive, or we're too forward, or we're too bold, or we're going too fast, right? Um, we're not seen at times as equal as our peers. And so, you know, I left that room of women, and I was like, you need to find your inner boldness. You need to be able to identify these situations, but also know that you never want to put that onto someone else. Because exactly what you just said and how it affected you, Um, from the person that's being bullied, that is a constant state of fear. If you're going into your job and you're scared that you're going to lose your job, there is something driving that. Now I'm not saying that everyone who's fearful of losing their job is not doing a good job or is doing a good job, but most of the time when we unpack these issues, we find that there's a toxic behavior. There's an environment, right? The big C is not working the way that it's expected. To work. And I think as women, we face this more, um, not to say that men aren't bullied and others, but I do feel that it is difficult. I mean, I'm a mom of five. Um, I used to get introduced as a mom of five, like in a public accounting firm. All my accolades and things that I've done and the certifications that I have, I'd be like, yes. Yeah. And Brittany's a mom of five and she leads our practice. It was like, why do we start with that? Like there's no, there's no reason to start with that in. in any means. Um, so one thing that I've learned that I have been coaching and helping people on is bringing in empathy and accountability into your culture. Um, empathy is not a weakness. It's often seen as a weakness, right? I can't have feelings. I can't ask about this. I can't do that. Um, but I believe it's actually one of the strongest tools. And it's one of the things that since my accident. I mean, my empathy is like off the charts. I care very deeply about the person and the relationship. Like the work is just something really cool that we get to do together in an accounting firm. Um, when people feel heard, they thrive. Uh, I have in my own firm now and revamping that because I want people to feel heard. I want them to feel that they belong. I want them to love their job. Um, their career come in and do an amazing job. They don't need to come in and have a constant, you know, state of fear and separately creating accountability. Zero tolerance, like report it. You see it, you report it, you do it, you're gonna go on a coaching plan, right? We need to make that space better. We need to not successfully promote those that have this behavior just because they might be good performers. They could be killing your culture.

KC Brothers:

Yes. We, we talk on the podcast a lot about efficiencies. Um, particularly, right. We've had conversations around, um, evaluating your tech stack AI, how you hire, this is like a secret hack to efficiencies as well. Like it, it goes in the same theme of correct your culture. Um, but particularly with this lens of taking this Having this view this examination putting everybody under a little bit of a microscope of like hey How can we be better and I hope a good microscope? I actually say that and I was like, I didn't like that phrase but um You do that and the efficiencies of your firm improve. Um, but I like your point about to accountability and that really does need to be a top down thing as well.

Brittany Malidore:

And if you're at the top and you don't recognize it, you know, I would encourage. Firm owners.

KC Brothers:

Mm-hmm

Brittany Malidore:

Employees, everyone to really self-evaluate your situation. Um, I started off at the beginning of this podcast talking about, right. I know what I love to do, but what am I made to do? Mm. I'm not made to wake up every day in a state of fear. I'm not way made to worry about my job. Um. I believe that everyone is born for greatness and you just have to find the culture and find that group of people, you know, unsilence that boldness and come forward as your authentic self. And with an empathetic leadership style and accountability, I do believe the firms can really nix this. Like, we shouldn't hear about this. I shouldn't be speaking to a room. That's half full of women that are being faced, um, create HR departments that are for the people, not just the business. Create a safe space for people so that they can come forward and you can work through it. Um, I think I'm a good example of, I may have had bullish tendencies. Fast forward to now. I now recognize those. I know how those affect people. You can change. It's not like a one and done

KC Brothers:

Yeah,

Brittany Malidore:

but you've got to be able open and receptive to do it And most of the time we find firm owners are you know, they're growing they're understaffed They're like we just need to get the job done culture typically falls to the end of the line

KC Brothers:

yeah, which is so unfortunate because it's something that Maybe even, not maybe, I should take maybe completely out of that statement, is harder to change than software. And I know there is a huge aversion because I work for a company who tries to market software to accountants. And one of the things we try to address is change management a lot, but I think culture is so much harder to change than software.

Brittany Malidore:

1000%. It's people based. Yeah. Right? There's feelings involved. You know, there's. You know, families at stake, there's businesses at stake, and depending on what value you're taking, I 1, 000 percent agree with you. Like, as someone who loves technology, most of the time when it disrupts me, I'm not too disrupted by it. It's like, this evolution is

KC Brothers:

understanding. And when things are emotional, it's way, it gets so difficult to sift through and take that emotion out of it and be a logical human being. Um, So I have two questions. Um, and choose where you'd like to start. Maybe we can circle back to the other. I'm sure there's a spectrum and you said you are. You gave an example to that crowd in South Carolina. I'd love to hear some of these examples. And, um, the other was, oh, uh, do you have a framework or a recommendation for, uh, a methodology or something that people can follow a, a rubric where they can have a self examination of their firm? Yeah. Whatever one you feel like you want to answer, go for

Brittany Malidore:

it. I like, let me start with the last one because really funny, I came up with an acronym that I thought was like really cool, um, for this presentation that I did that I was like, if I was to have people like have a takeaway. on like, let's talk about how we break this cycle. Right? And so the acronym is called CARE. And so C is communicate with empathy. Um, A is align expectations and, and make sure they're clear expectations. You know, uh, R is resolve conflict when it arises and E is empower the vulnerability. And I truly believe that this framework from a business owner, a firm owner, from a culture standpoint, if you. embed this into your culture, it can show up in so many different ways, right? Open door policies, how you communicate with your staff, showing empathy, uh, tone at the top. Uh, I truly believe if you have these four pieces of framework, that you can change your culture and you can change it relatively quickly. Whether you gain back the full trust, that takes probably a little bit longer. If you're communicating, if you're aligning your teams, if you're resolving those conflicts, you know, creating that space of vulnerability, you're already halfway there. The biggest thing, though, is that you can't just create the space. You can't just say that you're going to hear it. You can't just take the grievance. You have to act on it because those that receive the bullying or those that are the bystanders over time will start to doubt your culture. So I think question 2 first, that's kind of my take on, you know, very high level how we can help firms change this culture. Relatively quickly.

KC Brothers:

Yeah. And to your point, like you do need to hold the line. If you're going to follow through on this, you have to follow through. Um, you can, I mean, trainings, right. Upleveling the team doing it in such a way that it's like, Hey, this is how we're pivoting our culture or improving our culture. However you want to pitch it. Right. Yep. But then you have to have that follow up accountability. And what's hard is that even giving the staffing crisis that accountants are facing. It may still mean you need to let someone go. And if you don't, what you just said, everything you've tried to do will be destroyed because it'll show that you're not willing to step up to the plate and follow through with what you're trying to incorporate into the firm culture. 1000%.

Brittany Malidore:

A good friend of mine, um, who I worked with a few years ago said your do say ratios got to align. What you say has got to be what you're doing. So if you're saying, I have this culture, and I have this vulnerability, and we have empathy, however it may be, right? But if you're not doing those actions, it means nothing. People walk away and go, your do say ratio doesn't work. You know, and to your first Yeah, sorry. Um, and so to your first question, right, like, I don't even know that this is bullying, so what I, what I like to say is, do you have these kind of subtle signs and when you get many subtle signs in one. Then someone usually will say that they feel bullied. They'll come to the conclusion of I'm being bullied by this person, or, you know, they're treating me differently. Um, and they're really simple and you may not even know them in the moment. Right? So withholding information, undermining your work, micromanaging. Constant changing expectations, unrealistic deadlines, exclusion from events, exclusion from meetings. Um, you know, it doesn't have to be someone screaming at you or yelling at you or hitting you with a door, right? It can be a series of events that happen over time that will make a person feel that they're being mistreated and call that whatever you want. Call it bullying, call it intimidation, call it misrepresentation, like whatever you want to call it. They are going to come to the conclusion after enough of those instances to say, well, this sucks. Like, I don't like this. This is not great. And to your point, I'm trying to do a good job. Why is it not being perceived that way? And so then it creates that constant state of fear. So as a firm owner, as anyone who has employees, as an employee yourself, I think it's important to know the subtle signs and don't do them, you know?

KC Brothers:

Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So you've identified subtle signs. You've trained the firm, you're towing the line, um, that's the firm, because there's another angle, right? And that's the clients, our dear clients, who, you know, for the most part, every account I talk to, I love my clients, I love, and you've said it, I love serving my clients, but there is always Some portion of clients who are not fun to work with, who are rude, who, what do you do?

Brittany Malidore:

This question gives me chills because what you just said is so true. And most firm owners that are smaller, usually they keep. You know, the DEF clients, like, you know, uh, they've got some AB clients that are really great and they're awesome and they align with their values and then you've got clients that, you know, don't fit that. Um, we felt victim to that and probably our first two years we were like, take on anyone. we want to help the world we just want to go do eve like we are so excited, w every client and if you h figure it out, right? We and critical thinkers. Um this feels gross. Uh, sometimes we're getting value. Sometimes the clients see the value. Other times our team feel valued. They don't feel valued. It was this big, like melting pot of emotions. Um, so what I can say from the client perspective is as a firm owner, make sure that you have your values in line because your values will allow you to determine where and what is most important And second, create your detractor and your attractor lists. So those have transformed our firm. So we had a client very recently that was not speaking well to our team. And our team said, Hey, you know, this is kind of uncomfortable. Uh, their emails are short, they're brash at times, maybe really rude and manipulative. You know, we emailed that person and, um, you know, we said, Hey, our values are really rooted in relationship. and accuracy. So we want to do a really good job, but we really do care about you. I mean, we tell clients in an onboarding call, if you only want transactional services, we are not the firm for you because our team, they want to talk. They want to know why they want to help you. This client responded with, this is who I am. This is how I talk. I will not change who I am for you. And I hired you to do a service. Needless to say, one week later, I wrote an email that said, I don't think that we're the fit for you. I don't think that we are going to meet your expectations and it's not a good fit and that's okay. And so I will help you figure this out. We will, we'll have a meeting, we'll talk about it. You know, let's figure out what next steps are. Brittany three years ago wouldn't have done that. I would have kept the revenue just so I could say like I've got the client, I've got the revenue, I'm continuing to grow. Now we're growing with intentionality that is decisions are made by values. And we want to work with our tractor list, not our detractor list. And we've created this culture of, again, going back to the, what we talked about earlier, we're creating a culture truly that's people first. And so for us, if you can't communicate, then okay, that's fine. We're just not a fit for

KC Brothers:

you. Yeah. It made me think that maybe the quickest pulse check you or anyone in your firm could do to check for this is. Are you feeling fear? And if so, from who? Because you shouldn't have, that, fear is not an, a response, um, intrinsic to us. It's, it's responsive to some external factor. And identifying the external factor will help you identify, okay, well, what's the problem to be solved? But the fear here, which I actually, I hear this fear a lot in accounting. Am I going to get enough clients? Am I going to have enough revenue? Am I going to be profitable? I have to keep them even though they're, no, like,

Brittany Malidore:

yeah. Yeah. I know so many accountants that are bullied by their clients. I called you and you didn't call me right back. I emailed you on Saturday and I didn't hear back from you. Or I mean the eight 59 emails in the morning, like, Hey, I responded last night, but I haven't heard from you this morning. So many clients. Um, can be bullies and look, I'm not saying that as accounting firms, we need to control how our clients act, but there's enough clients in the world to make you successful. And so how are you going to spend your day? Um, that's what drove our niche now. So we found through our values, through these questions, through these hard times that we want to help nonprofits. We found that we very closely aligned from a value perspective with mission driven organizations. And so one of our largest niches is nonprofit and our team, their, their cup is filled. So like you said, there is no fear. They're excited to work on these clients. Like it's a different game changer.

KC Brothers:

They, you humans can thrive and do more in less time, believe it or not, when we are healthy and not just physically healthy, emotionally healthy, mentally healthy, not in a state of fight, flight or fight or freeze. I guess that's a new one that I've heard fight, flight or freeze like, right?

Brittany Malidore:

Yeah. And I think a lot of people talk about, well just make sure you have work life balance. You know, I think I said it earlier in the podcast and I'll say it again. If you are in an environment at work that is extremely toxic, it's going to seep into your personal life. Oh yeah. If you have a rough and hard personal life. That is going to seep into your day activities, whatever that is. Right. Um, and so to your point, it's very, very important for us to recognize that we as accountants are a human based service infused and powered by technology. I'm a firm, firm believer that if you're hiring a CPA firm, you are looking for. human connection, human understanding, human, you know, communication. Sure. You're going to get the technology. Maybe some firms can do things faster or slower, or they have this fancy tool. That's great. And I think as accountants, we need to continue embracing. But we need to not lose sight of the fact that we are so successful, we will be here time and time again, because there's people that are needed to communicate this to others. And so when we mistreat our people, whether that's a client or internally, You're just hurting your firm.

KC Brothers:

Yeah, whether we are the bystander your point like depending on the role Watching it happen. Like you being the bystander as a firm owner and letting clients bully your employees. Oh, I honestly Even at the beginning of this conversation, after you told me what you wanted to talk about, I've had so many light bulbs. I'm like, I didn't realize. And, and for myself, but also like the great application this really truly does have to the accounting industry. And I hope Listeners have had similar light bulbs or maybe they were like, Casey, get with the program. We already know what Brittany's talking about, but thank you again, Brittany. This was so enlightening. And I hope, I hope this saves some people because we're not to your point made to live in fear, wherever that fear is coming from.

Brittany Malidore:

I agree. I hope the stories that you and I shared today that someone goes, I'm not alone and I'm here to tell you you're not alone. Google me. We'll have a talk about it because you shouldn't feel that way. You should not have to go through this,

KC Brothers:

that there are options that you're take so much control over you that you don't see tomorrow has endless opportunities, that this is not the only thing that will get you through life. That there are, you are a valuable human with great things to offer and the environment you're in is not letting you operate optimally. Couldn't have said it better. Uh, thank you, Brittany.

Brittany Malidore:

Thank you. It's good seeing ya.